What words do you find offensive when they are said in a derogatory manner?
What about when those same words are not meant to be derogatory of offensive?
Why do so many people give words the power to offend them…to hurt them…to cause them mental anguish?
Why do some people use those very words all the time but when someone else says them they raise hell about it?
The reason I bring this topic up is because several incidents in the recent past of people using words that offended someone and they made such a big deal out of it that it made all the headlines and what pisses me off about all if it is…most of the people doing the complaining about what someone else said say stuff just as bad or worse.
A few of those instances are…
Michael Richards being heckled on stage and calling some members of the audience the “N” word (he actually used the word)…which I find it stupid to say “the N word” when everyone damned well knows what you mean.
Rosie O’Donnell on “the view” repeatedly saying “ching chong” created a stir and possibly cost her to leave the show…it is at least one reason for her leaving the show.
Don Imus created an uproar for saying “nappy headed ho’s” on his radio show and eventually was fired.
Isiah Washington caused trouble for himself when he called his costar a “faggot”.
There are no words alone that bother me at all. It takes more than just the words to piss me off or hurt me. It takes the meaning behind those words…how they are used and the context of the situation. The words mean nothing unless given meaning and the words have no power unless given power.
Maybe I should start being offended when people who do not know me…never talked to me…never seen me call me a white racist cracker simply because I have light skin and am very verbal about my thoughts on immigration and other issues that they wish to make racial when I simply want to stick to the issue and keep race out of it. Perhaps I should get pissed and sue someone for calling me a “chicky chick”.
So I ask again…what words? _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Sun May 27, 2007 3:48 am
LOSTANDFOUND
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 352
Location: USA
WOW
Eire,
I follow the old saying, "sticks and stone will break my bones but words will never hurt me" So many times it is in the context of what we say and rarely the words being said that causes such an emotional stirring.
My father is wonderful yet racist man. We have fought constantly over the years about the "n" word. He uses it all the time obviously in a very derogatory manner for a group of people he feels is of a second class to him. This is a word that everytime I hear automatically makes me think of my father and his ignorance of the real world. So that word is especially offensive to me. It has different meanings to different people but it ALWAYS reminds me of my upbringing and the open minded individual I became because of it. He said I would understand when I got older. Well, I'm older now and it makes no more sense to me now than it did then. I told myself that I was not going to let words determine who a person is, I was going to determine that by my interactions with them and the character of the person they truly are.
Now here's my question since we are discussing words...
Who came up with cuss words? Who determined their offensive nature to so many? Why is shit more offensive than the word crap? Don't they imply the same thing? I have asked religous people, intellectuals of all realms, and did some research on the internet to no avail. No one can seem to answer this for me. If i said fuck in front of my mother she would faint. My sister asked me not to use the word freak in front of my neices bc it implied the same thing as fuck ( i say what the freak a lot to save them from my potalicous mouth) Why is that word so taboo? Who says those are the "BAD" words and who are they meant to be bad towards? Mother Fucker, Asshole, Shithead, Son of a bitch and so many more...what are we really saying here? Is it how they are used...the tone? I have said many out of rejoice, frustration, happiness and anger. So who determined those dozen or so words no matter what context they are used in should automatically be a cause for my mouth to be washed out with soap?
Riddle me this, Batman... _________________ LAF
Knowing something will not change your life.
Doing something will.
Sun May 27, 2007 4:59 am
Cavewoman
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby
ok... perhaps i can answer this question best by giving two scenarios of the same verbal "explosion"
who the fuck you think yo R u big titted nappy headed nigger fuckin ho!
vs.
who do you think you are?
AND... i agree with all that has been said above.... i think the root of the problems stated above are that 1) in some cases the inflection combined with the topic make it offensive 2) in other cases, the use of normal words by some people is obviously meant to offend (as they intend) 3) the world has become overly sensitized....
and i'm not surprised by any of it... i mean, we are now dealing with the grown up version of the same generation with the parents that had Big Wheels and training wheels declared dangerous and taken off the market because their kids got hurt (these are the kids all grown up... OR their parents, still not grown up)..... this is the generation that sued McDonald's for serving hot coffee that they themselves spilled on their lap!.. I ask you, had they been served cold coffee, what would they have done?.....
bottom line? words exist,,, anger and frustration exist... yeah yeah, racism and sexism and religism and politicism and lord knows what else, they all exist..................... if its ok for the folks who use terms which are barely intelligble to utter them, then why can't the rest of us speak as we please?.... [oops! there goes my big wheel! ... loved that toy, was a blast] .. and the real bottom = if its ok in a hit Rap song, a hit Rock song, a popular poem, a popular "thang" expression... then how come its not ok for those folks in the public eye to utilize the same expressions?
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i want to hear fuck every other whatever come out of somebody's mouth... and i don't want hear nigger said haphazardly as i did 30 years ago.... but how about we all take responsibility for what comes out of our mouths AND we stop gettin freaked out over the words vs. the overall message?... one last item... have we no sense of humor? granted, some folks have a nasty sense of humor and I stuck a flaming 6 foot long campfire "firestick" in a nice fellow's face last summer who happens to hail from Kentucky for using the N and dyke slang WAY to loosely and offensively... but it wasn't because he used those words, it was the way, the message he harped on that pissed me off... i have no problem that to some folks I am a dyke, nor do i have a problem that to some folks, Phyl's skin color makes her a nigger, what I DO have a problem with are the negative connotations which sometimes follow in the convo... maybe that's what everybody is ticked off about....
but if we're gonna get ticked off with celebrities spewing the language, then we ought to stop the same behavior in our own lives
i say crick... you say creek.... we're talking about the same damn thing, right? _________________ " The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews
As to your question about where the words come from.
To me “curse” words are vastly different than “profane” or “swear” words. Some people feel that “curse” words and “profanity” are the same but they are not.
“Curse” originated as a “prayer” for evil or harm to be caused to someone.
“Profane or profanity” its meaning basically comes from its original meaning “to desecrate” and is considered to be blasphemous.
“Swear” this originated from the actual use of taking and “oath” or “swearing” an oath and its use to identify bad language comes from invoking “sacred names”.
But none of that really answers your question…I just found it interesting as I did my research at the local library.
The best answer I have for your question is…the origin of “curse, profane or swear” words are different for different cultures and time periods and the society at large. Sure we could trace all the different words back and find their origins and maybe even find out why some of them took on a negative connotation but that would not really give us a final answer to your question or tell us why we consider them to be “profane” today.
For example “cock” a word which plagues straight women’s lives. Originally “cock” exclusively referred to a male chicken. But when “cock” started being used to refer to a male sex organ it took on an entirely different meaning and that is how “rooster” came to be (or at least that is what my research at the local library tells me).
I noticed a couple of books you might find interesting while I was at the library if you are still looking into the origins of the words.
Origins & meanings of oaths & swear words by Mary Marshall
Bawdy Language by Lawrence Paros
Hugs,
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
I have to say...I agree with you also...
Except for...
"i say crick... you say creek.... we're talking about the same damn thing, right?"
Because Deb sometimes says, "I have a crick in my neck" and I do not think she is referring to a "creek".
Hugs,
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Sun May 27, 2007 8:26 am
smart_cookie
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA
I think that the easiest way to treat someone abominably is to consider them less than human. One of the quickest ways to dehumanize someone is to call them by names like "ho" and "nigger" and "faggot."
So, I don't think it's about "letting" words offend. Words carry the weight of the thought and the intention behind them. If the bus is crowded and someone needs to get by and says "Excuse me, Ma'am", that says "I see you as a human being worthy of my courtesy." If someone says "Move it, bitch" that says "You are beneath me, I don't even know you but have decided you aren't even worth basic civility, and what's more I want you to feel my power and lose yours" that's a whole different thing.
Don Imus, shock jocks, it's all a constant spew that isn't funny or meaningless at all. It is simple hate dressed up in a funny hat.
Cookie
Sun May 27, 2007 12:24 pm
LOSTANDFOUND
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 352
Location: USA
wow
Eire,
Thanks for the reply. I am going to the library tomorrow and pick up those books. I looked them up and they are available! woo hoo! I have to drop off some others so am looking forward to the trip. Thanks again for the research and the perspective from such a well rounded individual haha that'd be YOU
Pat Pats to you, _________________ LAF
Knowing something will not change your life.
Doing something will.
Smart I agree with what you said...wonderful reply
I don’t think it is simply the words but also how the words are used and in what context they are used and often…who uses them along with the thought behind them. If someone I did not know walked up to me and called me a bitch with the look of disgust or anger on their face I would punch them in the nose but if Deb called me a bitch…well I know what she means when she calls me a b.i.t.c.h. and it has nothing to do with the other meaning.
Now let me put a couple of more things into the context of this discussion. I touched on these in the original post but lets expand upon them a little.
I am not defending Don Imus…lets make that very clear. What he said was very inappropriate and those girls have every right to be offended. Before this man started getting his own ass into trouble because of what he said I did not even know who he was but I am going to use his situation as the example.
You have a man on a radio show who says “nappy headed ho’s” making reference to a women’s basketball team. This comment sent civil rights leaders and their supporters into an uproar. I started listening to what they were saying and who was saying what. There were people calling for this mans head when in my mind they were just as bad or a hell of a lot worse than him.
This is what Snoop Dogg said…this is just one example of many where a person says something out one side of their mouth and then says things ten times worse out the other side…in this case however I think both things came out the same side.
"It's a completely different scenario...Rappers are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing shit, that's trying to get a nigga for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white man that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them muthafuckas say we in the same league as him. Kick him off the air forever.”
Well if saying “kill the pigs” or calling someone a ho, bitch, mother fucker and any number of other names is not bad enough then he has absolutely no right calling for Don Imus to be kicked off the air forever.
Al Sharpton…a person who calls himself “a man of God” cannot find it in his heart to forgive Don Imus for what he said and he also wanted Don Imus fired but he never says anything about Snoop Dogg, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, Jeff Foxworthy, Whoopi Goldberg, Spike Lee, Larry the cable guy or any number of other people who say things just as bad or worse that offend people. I know Sharpton was recently part of a march for decency in rap lyrics but he only did that because of constant pressure being put on him to do or say something about it. I would like to think the letters I sent him had something to do with it…probably not.
In my mind people like Snoop Dogg and Al Sharpton are worse than people like Don Imus. People like Snoop Dogg who’s lyrics dehumanize people, degrade them and infect the minds of children to the point they think and act like the shit he spews on a CD. People like Al Sharpton who sit back and let people and rap groups like Onyx spew their filth into the minds of impressionable children. It is beyond reproach for him and people like him to sit on their asses and slam Don Imus while doing nothing about people who are doing far worse than people like Don Imus could ever do.
I have no problem with people coming out and saying what they think and feel but I don’t think they should be two faced about it and they should look at themselves first and judge themselves before casting judgment on anyone else. People should be able to say what they want to say and be held accountable for what they say but people should not hold themselves to one standard and everyone else to another. That kind of crap pisses me off more than what anyone could ever say.
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
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