Deb got this email from her mum last night and I thought I would pass it along to all of you.
After reading this it makes me wonder what the hell has happened to the educational system in this country? We need to crack down on education system and get back to the old ways.
Here is the email…
Remember when our grandparents, great-grandparents, and such stated that they only had an 8th grade education?
Well, check this out. - - -
Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895? This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, KS, USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th GRADE FINAL EXAM
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no Modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time, 1 hour 15 minutes)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per meter?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days, no grace, at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
U. S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U. S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620,
1800, 1849, 1865.
Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following:
Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each:
Trigraph, sub vocals, diphthong, cognate letters, lingual’s?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall & Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.
Notice that the exam took five hours to complete.
This test gives the saying "she/he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning, doesn't it?
Most college graduates today could not pass this exam in 8 hours let alone 5.
Why do we not have such an education today?
Spare the rod and spoil the child...we need to stop sparing the rod!!! _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:44 pm
kultis
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
Wow, this does give something to think about.
Since I am not from USA, I'm not fully aware what is your age when you are in 8th grade? In Finland we are 13-14, I think.
I must add here now, how proud I am to be in a country where school and studying is very important and has one of the world's best education system.
We do care here in Finland (or at least most of us does) and we do want to educate ourselves.
Now I actually do know why they teach us those 'stupid' stuff, like Finnish grammar (they actually start teaching it at a very young age), history, geography and such.
Graduating from high school means knowing that stuff. You have to participate in 4 of your chosen subject. However, there are some rules how you choose those:
1) You have to do your mother tongue on your finals (Finnish or Swedish, both are our national languages)
2) A-level (long) language (basically English, Swedish or German) OR long mathematics
3) B-level (short) language (basically Swedish, German, English or French) OR short mathematich [however, if you have done English on A-level, you can't do it on B-level]
4) Other subjects what you can actually read (meaning Psychology, Filosofy, Geography, Biology, Physics, History etc..) OR if you haven't done either Swedish or Mathematics, you can do it here.
The test takes 6 hours and it has that kind of questions, maybe not as hard as those are but almost.
Obviously I don't know anything about the States history or anything but might know something if it was about Finland and Finnish. Not when I was on 8th grade though.
This just made me see and realize, yet again, how well we are taught at school! How privilidged I am to be born in this kind of country.
kultis. _________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
quote:Originally posted by kultis:
Wow, this does give something to think about.
Since I am not from USA, I'm not fully aware what is your age when you are in 8th grade? In Finland we are 13-14, I think.
I must add here now, how proud I am to be in a country where school and studying is very important and has one of the world's best education system.
We do care here in Finland (or at least most of us does) and we do want to educate ourselves.
Now I actually do know why they teach us those 'stupid' stuff, like Finnish grammar (they actually start teaching it at a very young age), history, geography and such.
Graduating from high school means knowing that stuff. You have to participate in 4 of your chosen subject. However, there are some rules how you choose those:
1) You have to do your mother tongue on your finals (Finnish or Swedish, both are our national languages)
2) A-level (long) language (basically English, Swedish or German) OR long mathematics
3) B-level (short) language (basically Swedish, German, English or French) OR short mathematich [however, if you have done English on A-level, you can't do it on B-level]
4) Other subjects what you can actually read (meaning Psychology, Filosofy, Geography, Biology, Physics, History etc..) OR if you haven't done either Swedish or Mathematics, you can do it here.
The test takes 6 hours and it has that kind of questions, maybe not as hard as those are but almost.
Obviously I don't know anything about the States history or anything but might know something if it was about Finland and Finnish. Not when I was on 8th grade though.
This just made me see and realize, yet again, how well we are taught at school! How privilidged I am to be born in this kind of country.
kultis.
kultis,
I wish everyone...everywhere would get involved in their children’s education...when I say involved I mean INVOLVED. I do not mean "is your homework done" kind of involvement.
Education starts and stops at home.
Hugs,
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
I will have to debate a bit with you about this. Will post in the morning when I'm fully awake.
~Miki
Debate? woooooooooohooooooooooooooo!!!!!
I will however say that the eighth grade today is much different than it was 112 years ago and I will also say that this test...is very very easy if you just take the time to think. However if you handed this test to ten adults who have been out of school (and never really paid attention when they were in school) who have no love of learning then most of them would look at it like this but if you gave it to ten 8th graders today after spending an entire school year studying the stuff some would pass it with flying colours...1 or 2 would not just as it was 112 years ago.
I know as well as you that there is much more taught in today's schools than it was then and many of the subjects taught today where not even part of the curriculum then.
I think the point of that email…which I verified to be a true 8th grade test from 1895…the point of it is that some people think the children of today are not being taught as well as they should…but is that the schools fault…the teachers…the educational system or the parents fault? Well I think most of the blame can be laid squarely in the laps of the parents with the rest being distributed to everyone else.
Rubs hands together...I love debating things and I look forward to it...so bring it on girly...lets see what ye got.
Hugs,
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:44 pm
kultis
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
quote:Originally posted by Eiregirl:
Education starts and stops at home.
I totally agree on this one! Some people just, for one reason or another, aren't interested educating themselves or their kids.
Hugs,
kult. _________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Rubs hands together about debating
Aloha Eire,
I will have to start by saying that I do agree with you on two points:
1) Education begins in the home
2) There is something wrong with the American Public Education System.
quote:Originally posted by Eiregirl:
I think the point of that email…which I verified to be a true 8th grade test from 1895…the point of it is that some people think the children of today are not being taught as well as they should
My first point of contention is thus, the problem is that the e-mail preys precisely on that fear: that kids today are dumb. How in the world does a test from 1895 tell you anything about someone's education today? It can't and it doesn't. It is quite a leap to make.
Just because I couldn't pass that test after just being handed it cold, does not imply that my own education is somehow faulty. If I were handed a test that I actually took in High School and passed with flying colors, it is doubtful that I would do so well 20 years after the fact.
I'm wondering if that person who passed this test in 1895 was prepared at all by their education to deal with the world in which they lived. Calculating volume, area, and interest seem to be the only actual skills referred to on this test. Also the question about writing a check would also be a helpful "entering the work force" skill.
Does an 8th grader today learn by that time how to write out a check, an IOU or a receipt? Maybe not, but could probably tell you what they are with ease. Then again the educational system doesn't expect that kid to only go up to eighth grade before entering the work force. Whereas in the 1890's that was probably the norm.
Much of the rest of the test is rote knowledge, some it highly specialized and specific to the test's time and space. For example, it requires the test taker to understand acres, rods, bushels, knowledge that would have been
very
important to a farmer or rancher in Kansas. My point here is that what we consider important today is different, and the same yardstick cannot be applied.
My nephew is finishing 5th grade, and his report card doesn't just reflect school subjects, like it did in my day. He is assessed in a wide range of skills. He is evaluated on things like: responsibility (personal and civic), timeliness of assignments, socialization skills, participation, and even hygiene. I would assume that someone looking out for a child's wholeness would better prepare them for the world ahead than knowing four substitutes for û.
I wouldn't say that the American educational system doesn't fail. It does, woefully. Right next door to my nephew is a family, whose son, while in 8th grade could not write his own last name. He dropped out that year. No amount of 10 page report cards could help that boy, or his siblings for that matter. That whole family puts zero value on education. There's not a book in the house aside from the phone book and the Bible. The scary part? They aren't unique.
I can't remember the name of the show that I used to watch occasionally . It was a game show, where the contestants watched clips of people on the street being asked simple questions about general subjects. The contestants won money if they guessed whether or not a person got the answer right or something like that. Strange thing is, in this context, dumb people,
adults,
are downright hilarious.
Tangent aside, missing from the 1895 test are things that today's kids have to learn: literature, poetry, the arts,
world
history, sciences beyond basic geography. Does that imply that the average Salinas kid of that time was woefully under-educated? In my mind, it does. But then again, what I consider important today, is probably much different that what was important to a mid-Western American in the late 1800's.
Education should be a little bit about rote knowledge. (After all, how do you do your multiplication table if you don't memorize it?) But it should be more about learning to think, reason, analyze, induce, deduce. Knowledge of facts does not make one intelligent, nor is it education. It is the ability to apply that makes one intelligent.
And one last point, which would probably be a debate on it's own, is the last bit (which scared me a lot):
quote:
Spare the rod and spoil the child...we need to stop sparing the rod!!!
How exactly is this leap made? I grew up in the days when a paddle hung on the principal's wall. There isn't anything good about the practice. Values aren't taught during a beating. Leave teaching discipline and right and wrong to the home. As long as children can't defend themselves, no one should beat them. Punishment for wrong doing can be accomplished in less abusive ways.
The implication of such a statement is that children are spoiled brats today, and wouldn't be so if they got beat like we did. It's utter bull. Yes, a lot of kids are spoiled today but the reasons are a little more complex, and would require thinking, yes,
thinking
about the larger issues of American culture.
~Miki _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
“My first point of contention is thus, the problem is that the e-mail preys precisely on that fear: that kids today are dumb.”
If anyone who comes into contact with this email starts paying more attention to their children and their children’s education then I would have to say BRAVO YEAAAAAAAA WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO .
“How in the world does a test from 1895 tell you anything about someone's education today? It can't and it doesn't. It is quite a leap to make.”
Oh yes it can. When you take that test from 1895 then compare it to a test from today you will get a vast amount of information about the education of today and see how vastly different it is from the past. Actually you have proven that point in your own reply.
“Just because I couldn't pass that test after just being handed it cold, does not imply that my own education is somehow faulty. If I were handed a test that I actually took in High School and passed with flying colors, it is doubtful that I would do so well 20 years after the fact.”
Nods…I already basically said that and I agree with much of what you are saying. All education should be based from the viewpoint of the time we live in. Like I hinted toward in my previous reply. If you handed that test to 8th graders after they spent the entire school year studying the information they would do no worse with their scores than what they do today and might even do better on that test than tests they have today but if you just handed it to them cold…some of them might do ok but most would not.
Look at 8th grade tests from today or think back to your own tests from school and compare it to this one. One thing that is easy to notice is that while in 1895 they were learning basic math…addition, subtraction, multiplication and division but today you can find more advanced mathematics being taught…in many cases they are elective but they are available.
“I wouldn't say that the American educational system doesn't fail. It does, woefully.”
The system itself does not fail in my mind. In my mind the various parts of the system fail miserably. You can take the system as a whole and see that it could work wonderfully if all the parts worked together with each other.
The way I look at the educational system is by parts…you have the “parent part” (the most important part), the “student part” (the best part), the “school room teacher part”, the “administration part” (this part is bureaucratically to darn big). The part that fails most often is the “parent” part. When they show no interest in their child’s education they fail the child which makes the system fail. Most teachers are good teachers and do wonderful with the children they teach but the “school room teacher” part of the system…sometimes they fail to teach which makes the system fail. We could continue on through the system and look at every part of it and it would be the same…they can be wonderful as an individual part of the system or they can and do fail…depending on the individual. The best part of the system is the “student part” because most of them want to learn…they want to get an education…most of them may not like going to school but they enjoy being there (it is wonderful to see this part succeed when the “parent part” is not doing their job). Yes…sometimes the “student part” fails but most often it is because another part of the system failed them and most often the part that failed them was the “parent part”. In many cases all the parts click together. It is wonderful to see the end result when…the parents are interested, the child is interested, the teacher is interested and everyone involved is interested in the education of our children but all to often…one, two or all the parts fail especially the most important part…the parent.
“But it should be more about learning to think, reason, analyze, induce, deduce. Knowledge of facts does not make one intelligent, nor is it education. It is the ability to apply that makes one intelligent.”
Learning is a wonderful experience and it is something I enjoy very much. I think it is not only the ability to apply ones knowledge that makes them intelligent but the ability to understand what they are applying. Some people can apply what they know but have no idea of why or how it works.
“Spare the rod and spoil the child...we need to stop sparing the rod!!!”
“How exactly is this leap made?” I do not know and have no idea who originally wrote the email so your guess is as good as mine.
“I grew up in the days when a paddle hung on the principal's wall. There isn't anything good about the practice. Values aren't taught during a beating. Leave teaching discipline and right and wrong to the home. As long as children can't defend themselves, no one should beat them. Punishment for wrong doing can be accomplished in less abusive ways.”
I have to disagree with you here just a little because I think you are taking the words “Spare the rod and spoil the child...we need to stop sparing the rod!!!” to mean “beat the hell out of the child” when I take the words to mean “discipline the child” and sometimes that requires a spanking and that is what their bum is for.
I especially agree that we should leave teaching discipline as well as what is right and wrong to the parents at home and it would be wonderful except for the fact that some parents do not teach discipline and they teach that lying and stealing is not wrong or that being a bully is the way to go. How is that teaching discipline? How is that teaching a child what is right and wrong?…How is that teaching respect?
It should be the parents job to teach their children to respect others. It should be the parents who teach their children honesty and integrity among of host of other things but the sad fact is…there are those who do not. All to often I see children who have little if any respect for anyone or anything...least of all their own parents. I have seen parents who stood and watched their child do something wrong and when the parent asked the child about it they say, “I didn’t do anything” and the parent does nothing. You might say that the parent is just going to wait until they get home to discipline the child. Well that will just be to damn late because by then the child will have forgotten all about it or the parent has. Sooo what discipline?
“The implication of such a statement is that children are spoiled brats today”
Well…many children are spoiled brats today just as many children were spoiled brats when we were children. The reasons they are spoiled are only complex if we make them complex. The reasons are not so much “complex” as they are “varied”. It would not even be much of an issue if parents were more involved in their children’s lives.
These are words I have heard people say…“Oh hell let the damn TV baby-sit the kid or just let them play video games to get them out of our hair”. Sadly that is how many parents think.
If all parents took an active roll in teaching their children, if they were more involved in their children’s lives would everything be perfect? NO but things would be much better. There would still be the “brats” there would still be the “rotten eggs” and so on but there is no doubt things would be much better for the kids. _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Wed May 02, 2007 1:51 am
Start Over
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 222
Location: Somewhere in the cosmos
Frankly, I met at least one person in college who was very stupid. He had no idea where France was (among other things) and I bet he would've failed that test in 1895. (Ever see Jay Leno ask those people on the street questions? I don't think they're faking when they get the answers wrong.)
That said, I think I would have a little trouble passing it.
And on the spanking point, I agree with Eire in that there's a difference between beating a child and spanking him. Speaking from personal experience here, because I was spanked and I feel I'm a better person because of it—I learned respect and right from wrong. This is part of the reason I like the older generation (50+). Most of them were spanked and therefore are not the rude, arrogant young adults that one mostly finds today. (I know a lot of respectful young people, so don't think I mean they are all rude.)
Just my two cents.
Cheers
Start
Sat May 05, 2007 12:50 am
Cavewoman
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby
I'm not gonna go point to point here...
the fact of the matter is,,,, MOST young people entering the job market today with a highschool degree (USA) are BARELY able to understand percentages, basic multiplication, are ridiculously stupid with regards to world geography (not to mention politics or economics or religion) and frankly? they don't give a damn.....
which is why i think the "spare the rod" comment was made..... yes, i agree, education and respect and appreciation begin at home... now THERE'S a huge statement in today's modern world (at least the one of the USA)... WHO is home? and WHEN? doing what?....... not many adults are home spending time with their children doing things important to maturation... if they are home, the kids aren't... if they are home, they're busy trying to party, pay the bills, clean the place and figure out how in the world to get to Disney Land or World, take your pick... Fantasy Island prevails as a major priority.....
the test? I imagine most of the 1890's world would pass that test.. its indicative of their time and place in history... reverse the question... could they pass a modern day cumulative test? (granted, accounting for history which they could not know and etc.).... i doubt it....
i believe the crux of today's problem is the home... for the most part, it simply doesn't exist.....home today, for an awful lot of kids is just a building... with any luck at all, it has a clean bed, some decent food, a telephone of some sort, a TV and a computer....
fact of the matters are, mom and dad just aren't there, and when they are, most don't have time or don't make time... discipline is nonexistent, money is tight for most which only adds to the major mess....
the test? its a test.... had i been alive then, in that world all my life, i would likely pass it with ease..... but i wasn't, i'm alive now... give me today's test _________________ " The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews
quote:Originally posted by Cavewoman:
fact of the matters are, mom and dad just aren't there, and when they are, most don't have time or don't make time... discipline is nonexistent, money is tight for most which only adds to the major mess....
the test? its a test.... had i been alive then, in that world all my life, i would likely pass it with ease..... but i wasn't, i'm alive now... give me today's test
Cave,
Thank you very much for your reply it is greatly appreciated.
This is my personal opinion...
If the parent(s) cannot be there...do not attempt to teach their children discipline, right from wrong, if they cannot show an interest in what their children are doing...where they are going...who their friends are and the list can go on and on. If they cannot do the basic things a parent(s) should do then why the fuck did they have children to begin with?
If parents cannot be there for their children they should not have children.
People can cite all kinds of reasons and excuses for bad parenting but the very simple fact remains unchanged...if parents would parent and be a viable part of their children’s lives...then their children would be better served, society would benefit tremendously from it and this world would be a much better place to live.
Both of my parents worked when I was a child but they made the time to be a major part of their children’s lives. They made a point of taking an active interest in what their children were doing. They knew who our friends were. They knew where we were and who we were with.
When our daughter was born my mum told me…
“Being a mother does not start at age 10, 12 or 15. Being a mother starts at birth and never ends.”
I know there are families that struggle to make ends meet and both parents have to work just to put food on the table and sometimes they work long hours to do that. I know it is especially hard for single parent families and families that are in poverty but even these excuses are just not acceptable to me for a parent not to parent their children.
I know there are rotten kids in this world and no matter how wonderful a parent you are they are still going to be ROTTEN no matter how much interest you show or how much a part of their lives you are…some kids are just plain rotten. I believe there would be fewer such children if parents would simply parent.
I know that parents want to see their children do better in life than they did. Many of them work long hours or two jobs to try and give their families everything they want…a nice house, nice cars, nice vacations, designer clothes but would the family be better served by just being a family instead of strangers that walk past each other at the door?
As I said before and I’m about to say again…all the excuses and reasons that can be made or thought up will never change the facts…being a parent is a 24/7 job that starts at birth and ends when you die.
I could go on and on about this but…I will stop here.
As far as the test goes…like you said…“it’s a test”…it is a test that fits it’s time period just as the tests of today are based on our time period…it does not change that fact that the educational system in the United States could use a little help…mainly from parents. _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
quote:Originally posted by Start Over:
Frankly, I met at least one person in college who was very stupid. He had no idea where France was (among other things) and I bet he would've failed that test in 1895. (Ever see Jay Leno ask those people on the street questions? I don't think they're faking when they get the answers wrong.)
That said, I think I would have a little trouble passing it.
And on the spanking point, I agree with Eire in that there's a difference between beating a child and spanking him. Speaking from personal experience here, because I was spanked and I feel I'm a better person because of it—I learned respect and right from wrong. This is part of the reason I like the older generation (50+). Most of them were spanked and therefore are not the rude, arrogant young adults that one mostly finds today. (I know a lot of respectful young people, so don't think I mean they are all rude.)
Just my two cents.
Cheers
Start
Start,
Thank you very much for your two cents worth...it was more like a nickle though
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Sat May 05, 2007 4:41 am
StevieAT3
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 105
ok lets start off by saying, in 1985 you didnt need more than an 8th grade education to do well. Im not saying that it wasnt a very good idea, but you really didnt need it.
I can only speak from my own experiances so here we go, if you have a parent who even takes a passing glance at your education and have a decent education system you can take this test and pass not only in the 8th grade but even earlier.
You have to take education as a whole not just the actully information. In the days were technoeducation is even more important than your history the values and the needs of education have changed. To know how to write a formal buisness letter perfectly is not as important has how to use a computer to format and edit it. Or the used of penmanship or spelling vs using the reasources around you.
Although certian things like reading and mathmatics and history will always be important children also have to cope in learning more fluid skills like language technology science speach problem solving.
so there is my two cents by a malt whiskey by 1895 standards _________________ "do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be a lesbian ghost?" --Hexx
my writings and works @
Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:26 pm
Cavewoman
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby
1985? or 1885?
i've been in the position of hiring, teaching and management ....in today's world.... and i haven't deliberately ex'd anybody for lack of formal education but i have to comment on the last post.... NEVER has a non graduate impressed me with their simple computer skills... and i don't mean their skill set is simple with regard to the world of computer usage/repair/upgrade/maintenance... what i DO mean is that while they might be able to run mighty rat circles around me when it comes to technology... God forbid they ever open their mouth or try to write a coherent message...... if one cannot communicate legibly with the surrounding business culture ...and that doesn't mean only with regards to the commerce at hand, but in all other facets of human communication using acceptable and legible grammer and comfortable human skills, ...... of what use is their skill set to the overall enhancement of life at large?...................
YES, behavior and the ability to think complexly ARE important... isn't that what history, math, science, logic, philosophy and ultimately "english" (pick your "language" rules) are all about... learning how to think and communicate?
i'm in agreement with the fluid knowledge and the glorious ability to now share ... but the roots remain constant... and they remain firmly IN NEED...
i can make no sense of a string of UR2BM9 garbunk in a business plan or a medical plan or a financial plan or a strongly enhanced debate filled with facts to back a theory... at that point of human growth, the fluidity becomes bunk.... and THAT is why basic core values and education remain a constant and unchanging need ... without them, we cannot communicate our ideas clearly
if the goal is to simply pay the rent and put some sort of food on a table, ok, i guess one can figure out how to get by with an 8th grade education...
................... is that supposed to include security or happiness? agreed: money does not buy happiness.. but money WILL keep the car on the road, WILL put food with nutritional value on the table, WILL pay for vacations, WILL try to secure a degree of comfort come retirement, WILL help in times of illness, WILL make the gift-giving occassions much easier if one is not a crafty person, WILL pay the rent, WILL pay for the night out on the town,, etc etc... just the basics of living in modern metropilis........ from my experience, having a bit of spare cash has made happiness a bit easier to materialize ... and no: i'm not leaving out the part about good company, which money cannot buy _________________ " The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews
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woooooooooohooooooooooooooo!!!!!
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and I agree with much of what you are saying. All education should be based from the viewpoint of the time we live in. Like I hinted toward in my previous reply. If you handed that test to 8th graders after they spent the entire school year studying the information they would do no worse with their scores than what they do today and might even do better on that test than tests they have today but if you just handed it to them cold…some of them might do ok but most would not.
