Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
religious hangups
A month and a half ago, this fine woman hit on me in a coffee shop. We talked that weekend and decided we'd go out when I got back from my spring break trip. But we also talked during my vacation. She told me that she'd dated women for 14 years but was tired of having a dual life with her christian faith, so had been trying to be straight of late. And that she hadn't really hit on me with the intention of going out. I was bothered by that, but we talked again a couple days later, and this time she wanted to go on a date. So that weekend, we did. It was the best first date either of us had ever had. We were both so excited afterward. A few days later we agreed to begin dating.
Things were blissful. She said she'd "talked to the creator about me" and all was well. Then came a week ago yesterday when she went back to her church (she'd been skipping since she met me). The pastor is a powerful speaker, author, and someone my girlfriend has known and looked up to for years. My girl talked me into going with her to church, but I told her she could never ask me again.
The service turned out to be women-only, and it didn't start out badly. But halfway through it, the pastor started off on this anti-lesbian tangent, complete with child molestation insinuations. I was furious. I could see why weaker people would be influenced by that.
After that, my girlfriend began acting weird. She came over Wednesday and we talked. She said she's two people - the one who likes women and the christian, and she can't reconcile them. That she can't see herself not liking women or not being a christian, so she doesn't know what to do. But she still can't actually say she's a lesbian. Told me to watch out for myself because she knows how she is when she gets like this. We had great sex, as usual, after this conversation.
Thursday I made an appointment for her to talk to this great MCC pastor this week. This is a good thing, and is my only hope right now. Because Thursday evening she began being distant, and it continued Friday. Saturday she finally called in the evening and was acting strangely. I finally confronted her and got her to say it: that she couldn't be my girlfriend or have sex with me, at least in the foreseeable future, because she has to reconcile the issue. That having sex with me messes with her head. Though it's been a relatively short time, I am pained by this. We are so good for each other in every way. Just really really compatible.
I do not understand this hold religion has on some people. I've not met many gays and lesbians that go to church, much less have issues of this magnitude. Does anyone else out there understand this or has had similar experiences?? I feel so alone.
And what am I supposed to do now? I think I wanna find a new date, but I'm not sure. I'm still depressed and angry.
Anyone with any insight would be so appreciated.
Mon May 15, 2006 6:41 pm
RedViolin1
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Michigan
went through this myself and it didn't turn out well. Tried for 2 years to have a relationship with someone just like you are describing. It was full of turmoil and rejection.
Will yours be the same? hard to tell, but experience is what it is.
Unless you are willing to give up the sex, then I would look elsewhere.
*Looking for a single lesbian who has no problem expressing her love; baggage ok as long as you are working on it*
Are there any out there? _________________ i am ceaslessly amazing... at times! fun loving, passionate, perfectly imperfect human being.
Some say the glass is half full, some say it's half empty. I drink whats left and ask for a refill!
Mon May 15, 2006 9:30 pm
BaileyWillis
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Michigan
I just had a relationship that ended a couple months ago over religious issues. We had many discussions on the interpretation of the Bible, and she kept coming back to the conclusion that what were doing was morally wrong. I think she tried hard to be OK with it, so I stuck around hoping she'd change her mind. The problem with sticking around, for me at least, was I just fell more in love with her. In her defense though, she was very upfront with me from the beginning about this moral dilemma, so I was warned. One lesson I did get from this is that I wouldn't get involved so deeply again with someone who had this kind of conflict. Religious beliefs are hard to compete against.
Mon May 15, 2006 10:43 pm
Cavewoman
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby
advice? move on cesini ... I respect the lady for being upfront with you. Resolving religious dichotomies is a personal voyage and until she has firmly landed somewhere in her own mind and heart, there is little you can do beyond get tangled up in her quandries and get hurt trying to develop a relationship.
Tue May 16, 2006 1:02 am
cesini
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
Thanks, all, for the words. I hear you loud and clear. I'm thinking maybe I should be grateful that it only lasted this long, because that would make it more difficult. I've been focused a lot this year on letting go. Maybe this is why.
Tue May 16, 2006 1:32 am
Renee
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 88
Hi, cesini...
I went through something similar quite a few years ago when I was in my early twenties. My G.F. was not the most stable person and she told me pretty early on that she had been a born again christian, but was into women. We had only been dating a few months and she began playing her old Amy Grant records over and over. She began drifting back to her church and let me go...now she is married to some dude and probably has a few dozen kids. I think it's very difficult for people who have a strong belief in God (to the point of being born again) to reconcile gay feelings. Maybe she will come around some day, but it's best to move on. I hope you get to feeling better soon.
Wed May 17, 2006 12:28 am
DanceofSorrows
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 2837
From personal experience it is extremely difficult to reconcile traditional religious beliefs and homosexuality. There is no certainty of a time limit, experience or outcome when going through this. To this day I cannot listen to spiritual music or even step foot in a church without an internal battle. I have tried online support groups, counseling, 'self-talk', reading through both arguments of the subject and yadda yadda yadda. Point being, there are underlying issues in reconciliation (if there can be for everyone) that doesn't meet the eye. Changing a belief system is undeniably the hardest thing to do (that is why so many live life 'scripts'). Not to say something within our belief system can't be changed...but a whole belief system? One belief that holds all of one's; worth and purpose, answers to life, comfort, hope, power etc etc... it is all intertwined. Especially with a belief system with absolutes within a framework.
The reality is that through the struggle, yes I have hurt people though not intending to. I was blamed for the belief system as an 'excuse' to break up with someone, though obviously someone like that is just hurt and lashing out, not wanting to understand it or why. With my first long term g/f and more rare my second, there was a going back and forth. The bitch of it is... people need to feel support and love through it. But also, it is very hard on the partner who is left to feel insecure about the stability of the relationship and where they fit in.
Where does one go when in the in-between (the very core of the struggle itself)? All I can say is because of the intensity of it, because of the wounds and afflictions of it, we grow stronger in compassion for others, we look deeper into the complexity of human need and desire where in the end one is looking at not an 'issue' but a person with feelings and thoughts, with need for companionship and relationships, with a spirit and a soul, with a need for worth and faith itself. To me, that even means if people claim for themselves to follow thier religion and give up homosexuality or if they find a different spiritual path or if they can reconcile both...well good for them, you know? It is thier life and they are the only ones that can live it just like we, no doubt we are affected by others and this is a very hard place for all involved. It is about real people and not sides. It is about compassion and understanding and true concern. Healing is a treasure and every soul needs it.
Knowing what I went through, I don't think I would date someone where I was at but I would surely be a good friend and be a support if my feelings were not heavily involved romantically. Otherwise it would be too hard for me at least, if I fell in love. We all go through our things in life, and not everything is about the end result. I am babbling with so many thoughts, some not written here. But for those who struggle with this and for those that love them...hugs.
Dance~
Mon May 22, 2006 4:19 pm
cesini
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
Renee and Dance, thanks a lot for the insight. Renee, that is intense that it still haunts you like that. Again, this is all new to me so I am unfamiliar with it and don't know if I can ever fully understand it. I've told two close friends about the situation with her, and they don't understand what she's going through either. They say she's immature and if she hasn't found out who she is by age 36, then she's not for me. They seem to have a point. Why hasn't she dealt with and figured this out yet? But if it's as difficult as you say, Dance, then maybe they don't have a point. I don't even know.
We spent a lot of time together from Friday to Sunday. Friday afternoon we had a long discussion and cleared the air about some things. We like each other as people and want to get to know each other better, as you would in any intimate relationship. But there is also a very strong sexual attraction between us. We did some sexual things but without the full intimacy involved, ie kissing. We hung out at a pride festival Saturday, with friends, and acted like girlfriends for the most part. It was very comfortable.
Yesterday we talked again and she said she doesn't know how long it's going to take her to reconcile/resolve this, and she doesn't expect me to wait for her. That I could meet someone else, you never know. That's where I was at with it too. We can be friends, as we do care a lot for each other, and maybe occasional sexual partners. But I'm going to keep my options open too, because I can't put my life on hold for anyone. And it's extremely evolved of her to realize that and be willing to let me go if necessary.
I've never been in a situation like this, so I'm taking it one step at a time.
Mon May 22, 2006 5:52 pm
Mac
Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Australia
other side
so being on the other side of the fence, the religious lesbian side, il share a few thoughts, maybe it will help you see the other side, maybe it wont.
see with religion, its not as easy as you think. Especially if you were brought up in it. Its not a "part" of you. Its everything you are. Its your beliefs, the reasons and justifications behind all the decisions you make. You and your religion can't be separated by any sort of logic or reason. Its about Faith.
and then comes along this thing that will destroy everything you thought you knew, homosexuality. It doesnt fit anywhere in your life but its so deeply in your head and eventually someone amazing comes along and its in your heart too and its really harsh to be like "why hasnt she figured it out yet"...its because there is nothing to figure out. There is no solution. There is no band aid. You can't give up your beliefs just like that. And you can't help who you are attracted to or who you love either. The best you can do is survive the struggle that will enevitably be your life from the point of realisation.
when I first met my girlfriend, i told her to run for her life because I would just screw up her guilt-free agnostic world. She wasnt religious but I very much am so I felt like she shouldnt have to be burdend with the very heavy weight i carry around in my chest and head all day. And its so confusing when sex is involved. Especially good sex. Sometimes I will have amazing times with her and be on such a high and then afterwards I have some sort of "religious panick attack" where I start to think about all the writings and teachings and songs in my head that were sung to me as a toddler in my basinet and I see pictures and images and quotes and it all closes in on me like walls and I feel so GUILTY. So guilty. its overwhealming and its involuntary and its nothing to do with my amazing girlfriend because she is perfectly considerate and i love her. Its all to do with the way I was conditioned and the way my soul reacts to the actions of my body and all the pressure from my FAMILY and friends and everyone for me to live up to this high ideal. so much pressure!
in brief, its impossible to understand. It can only be experienced. i've done it for 21 years so far and I make trips to hell and back in my mind regularly. And there are degrees of impossiblity depending on your religion and family and the extent of your active invovlment in your religion.
And I don't blame you AT ALL for feeling the way you do because if i was on the other side i would be extremely frustrated and distressed and hurt and I would probably run for my life.
good luck to you.
mac. _________________ Be generous in prosperity and thankful in adversity.
Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:17 pm
cesini
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
Mac, wow. That's amazing, what you wrote. You made me understand it completely because you took me right there with you. Thank you. Many hugs and much love to you in your struggle.
Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:51 am
Mdm Prez
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 1536
Location: U.S. of A.
cesini
I've never had a moment of guilt regarding my religion and my god. I am Roman Catholic.
My god is all understanding and merciful.
Mdm _________________ If you're not getting the answers you want,
you're not asking the right questions.
Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:45 pm
mayday1
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Ohio
I'm with Mdm Prez. I haven't had guilt about my sexuality, and I'm Roman Catholic. I did however not acknowledge that I was into women until I was in college, because of what others had taught me about God. God loves you no matter what. All the rules and stuff around religion are supposed to help you become closer to God. So all the stuff that gets inside a persons head and makes them hate themself or others is not from God.
Sorry for the rant but I totally feel for those on both side of this issue.
Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:16 pm
cesini
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Los Angeles
I appreciate the different viewpoints.
The woman and I are not together right now, but are friends. I'm encouraging her to keep working on this and making sure she's not avoiding it just because we're not girlfriends right now.
I had her see a great lesbian MCC pastor last month, who recommended some books for her. I checked them out and they look good. Now to just get her to buy them.
Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:00 pm
RunninAway
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 159
Location: Midwest United States
I myself am a lapsed Catholic, although I prefer to think of myself as a recovering Catholic, as I have many issues with the doctrine of the church, none of which have to do with my sexuality. Althought I am not practicing, and I do not agree with many things, I am still a spiritual person (not overly) who has established my connection with my God. As a parent I feel I have an obligation to expose my child to religion, therefore I am raising my daughter Catholic, and recently she took her first communion, a very exciting day for her and a very proud day for me and my family. I have never struggled with trying to reconcile the beliefs of the church with my sexuality, it for me is a non-issue.
I have been given some grief about raising her in a religion that tells her I am a bad person. Fortunately, we have not had to cross that bridge, our parish and priest are very open minded, but if the day comes where it is an issue, then her and I together will deal with it. I fortunately have not had difficulty getting past the "evil sinner" teachings of the church and know, like Mdm Prez stated, that my God is all understanding and merciful, as well as all loving. I know that I am a decent person worthy of God's mercy and love, and my sexuality does not change that.
As for my girlfriend, she is not affiliated with any particular religion, but is also a spiritual person who has established her connection with her God as well. We have similar levels of spirituality and belief, and that works to our advantage. She supports my decision to raise my daughter in the Catholic faith, and she asks questions and expresses interest in the teachings, rites and rituals that my daughter is being taught. She prays out loud every night when she goes to bed, and I feel very priveleged that she shares that moment with me, it's a very special 30 seconds out of our day. It's not a structured prayer that was learned as she grew, it is an individual expression each day thanking God for what we have been blessed with, asking continued blessing and protection for our family, friends, and loved ones. I don't pray that formally when I'm not with her, it just doesn't seem the same. But don't think that everyday I don't thank God for what I have been blessed with in my own manner.
My best wishes that you find the peace, contentment, and love that you are searching for, in your relationships with others and with your God. _________________ I need some insanity of that temporary kind.....
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