I need some opinion from the homosexual community. Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4Next
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DanceofSorrows
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 2837
and by the way Architect, my post was more my thoughts on it as a whole. As far as you posting, I apprechiate you and your views as a person and I know you came with a good heart. I wish you peace hun and I want you to know you have really great writing skills for a 19 year old Good for you. I hope you use them in a great way one day.
Dance~
Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:43 pm
Jules
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 904
Location: Home
Phil,
I commend your courage for posting this here. Though I may not agree with the things you have said, I did read it through and respect your opinion. However, I'm sure that Renee won't be the only one to tell you to stick it in your hat! Your essay was intelligently written. I admire the strength and courage that comes from such a young man.
However, being a recovering Christian myself, I am reminded of one thing...Forgive me if the quotation is not perfect.
Judge not lest ye be judged....
Basically, it is not up to your friends or your religion to judge us, or any other community in this world. I spent several years being the "good christian wife", I also was shut out of my church because I chose to leave my abusive husband. As a side note, I have been baptized, "saved" and "born again". You know what...I was born a lesbian the second time around too! If you choose to believe in the Christian God, the Christian faith...then you have to believe that God created us exactly the way He wanted us to be.
I would be interested in giving you another "assignment" should you choose to further broaden your mind.
Again...Thank you for having the courage to share your opinion,
Jules _________________ Never again
Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:48 pm
Mairi bheag
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
God loves us, and gives us the opportunity to change.
Mb
xx
_________________ all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.
Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:14 pm
Renee
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 88
I commend your courage for posting this here. Though I may not agree with the things you have said, I did read it through and respect your opinion. However, I'm sure that Renee won't be the only one to tell you to stick it in your hat! Your essay was intelligently written. I admire the strength and courage that comes from such a young man.
Yes, this topic makes my blood boil! Phil, your essay did require a lot of work and research on your part, and believe me, I am
thrilled
that you don't want us to be executed, really (although you'd probably make an exception for me, at this point!). As Jules said, what you did took courage as well.
Allow me to expound a bit...I have been "out" for twenty-three years, Phil. Longer than you have even been alive. I have witnessed Anita Bryant's "save our chldren campaign" (like your pal, she believed homosexuals should be put to death, along with those who committed the sin of racial mixing of human seed) in the mid to late seventies. As you are aware, gay marriage is a hot topic in the U.S. these days. Most states have crafted laws banning same sex civil unions or are in the process of doing so. My own state, Wisconsin, is attempting create a law banning civil unions in this state FOREVER. Denying people the same basic rights as others is denying their humanity. It is saying that they are not fully "human". The basis and excuse for the denial of my right to marry whom I love is a few sorry bible verses. You stated yourself that you do not support gay marriage, in fact you couldn't care less! Or, you said you could care less, which technically means that you do care a little....a common grammatical mistake. I am guessing that you care enough about it to vote the possibility of it out of existence in whatever state you are residing in. There are two born-again Christians in my family... my eldest brother and my baby sister. They both acknowledge that they believe I am going to hell, as you in all certainty believe we are, too. Phil, try to put yourself in my place for just a moment. I have been living with this kind of inane prejudice for over twenty years, I am not allowed to marry the person of my choice because my doing so will supposedly destroy the sanctity of your marriage and two of my family members including my sister whom I adored and carried around on my hip from the earliest age... believe I am going to hell. Every morning I wake up and face the newspaper and I feel sick...sick that my right to marry is once again front page news and I can't stop myself from reading letters to the editor from people who think the world will cease to spin if I get married to a woman. I am furious because I am a human being and I am as good as anyone else, Christian or not. Then...you come prancing in here and stand up for my right to not be executed. Imagine the immediate and visceral response on my part. You and your friend discussing my right to live...or not.
With that said...I aplogize for the nastiness of my earlier missive.
Renee
Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:48 pm
Architect
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
quote:Originally posted by Renee:
I commend your courage for posting this here. Though I may not agree with the things you have said, I did read it through and respect your opinion. However, I'm sure that Renee won't be the only one to tell you to stick it in your hat! Your essay was intelligently written. I admire the strength and courage that comes from such a young man.
Yes, this topic makes my blood boil! Phil, your essay did require a lot of work and research on your part, and believe me, I am
thrilled
that you don't want us to be executed, really (although you'd probably make an exception for me, at this point!). As Jules said, what you did took courage as well.
Allow me to expound a bit...I have been "out" for twenty-three years, Phil. Longer than you have even been alive. I have witnessed Anita Bryant's "save our chldren campaign" (like your pal, she believed homosexuals should be put to death, along with those who committed the sin of racial mixing of human seed) in the mid to late seventies. As you are aware, gay marriage is a hot topic in the U.S. these days. Most states have crafted laws banning same sex civil unions or are in the process of doing so. My own state, Wisconsin, is attempting create a law banning civil unions in this state FOREVER. Denying people the same basic rights as others is denying their humanity. It is saying that they are not fully "human". The basis and excuse for the denial of my right to marry whom I love is a few sorry bible verses. You stated yourself that you do not support gay marriage, in fact you couldn't care less! Or, you said you could care less, which technically means that you do care a little....a common grammatical mistake. I am guessing that you care enough about it to vote the possibility of it out of existence in whatever state you are residing in. There are two born-again Christians in my family... my eldest brother and my baby sister. They both acknowledge that they believe I am going to hell, as you in all certainty believe we are, too. Phil, try to put yourself in my place for just a moment. I have been living with this kind of inane prejudice for over twenty years, I am not allowed to marry the person of my choice because my doing so will supposedly destroy the sanctity of your marriage and two of my family members including my sister whom I adored and carried around on my hip from the earliest age... believe I am going to hell. Every morning I wake up and face the newspaper and I feel sick...sick that my right to marry is once again front page news and I can't stop myself from reading letters to the editor from people who think the world will cease to spin if I get married to a woman. I am furious because I am a human being and I am as good as anyone else, Christian or not. Then...you come prancing in here and stand up for my right to not be executed. Imagine the immediate and visceral response on my part. You and your friend discussing my right to live...or not.
With that said...I aplogize for the nastiness of my earlier missive.
Renee
Okay...I just wanna say that I'm sorry if I came off as seeming to think of myself as "better" than you. Honestly, I don't think I'm better than anyone else. We're all just human right?
Hmmm...struggles...zips lips and ties fingers together and smiles...
Eiregirl
Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:25 pm
SWAY
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1560
Location: Upstate NY
Having read this through about 3 times to assimilate what it said.....very well written and I appreciate your point of view architect.
I think the point of this is not that we as homosexuals should be executed or not, but that we should love thy neighbor.
I grew up in the church, well....at least my teen years to early twenties...I went to a bible college....I know a good deal about the bible....and I, to this day, still struggle with being me and being born again, and I can't seem for the life of me reconcile being gay with being born again...no matter how hard i try....
I am reminded of a saying I was always told in the church, you can hate the sin, but love the sinner. We are to love one another as Jesus loves us. That is the main goal, as has been mentioned by a few others here, to love one another. We all have things in our lives that we aren't proud of, that we know is sin.....but does that mean that I love my mother or father, sister or brother, friend, acquaintance, or stranger any less? NO, of course not....
I will write more on this I am sure, in the future, I need some more time to process my thoughts, and not just feelings.
Architect, I applaud you for your courage. And I thank you for your opinion.
More to come..... _________________ Giving myself to others has made me jaded...
Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:34 pm
realwoman
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa
Having struggled, like Eire, to keep myself out of this since this was first posted, i can no longer do so, especially after SWAY's statement that "
I can't seem for the life of me reconcile being gay with being born again...no matter how hard i try...
."
Because, yes, i grew up in the church, and struggled for many years to reconcile who I knew i was, with what the dogma of religion preached. But the day I made peace with myself being a lesbian was the day I realised the difference between 'religion' and 'spirituality'. It was also the day I made peace with God.
This 'enligtenment' made me realised how religion and the dogma thereof takes us away from God. Someone by the name of Lenny Bruce said: "Every day people are straying away from the church back to God"
Let me start explaining this by stating this concept: Our thoughts are waves of energy. We can control our thoughts. Positive thoughts (or emotions), like love, deerness, compasion, caring, etc., creates positive energy. This makes you feel good about yourself. Negative thoughts like fear, jealousy, etc., creates negative enegey. This makes me feel bad about myself.
Religion, or the dogma thereof, teaches FEAR. Fear is negative energy. Fear in my mind produces fear in my life. This is the meaning of HELL. The Dogma of Religion says - "We will think FOR you, here are the RULES we made so you DONT have to think for yourself. If you break these rules, you will go to HELL. Hell is a place where you BURN. So relax - and just follow our Rules. Then you have nothing to FEAR. We will CONTROL your thoughts for you. And as time goes by, religion looses more and more of this control. But it still controls the minds of people. And it can still make rules about who we should love or not....
If however, you start to THINK for yourself, with the brain that God created you with, then you realise that there are no rules, no limits, no dogma, and no laws. You start to take responsibility for your choices and your actions. You control yourself, and become the master of your thoughts, and of your destiny. Accepting even your "dark" side. Because you are, as you were created, in totality, an extention of Gods Love.
Spirituality means that I accept myself, and love myself, for who I am. God is LOVE. LOVE is the most powerfull of all positive thoughts and emotions. It is always positive energy. Love in my mind produces love in my life. This is the meaning of heaven.
I read this somewhere: "To say God delivered me from hell means: GOD delivered me from my Fears". A religion that is based on fear, does not teaches GOD is LOVE anymore.
So here i am, today, Proud, Lesbian, and Free from the Rules of Society, with the Love of God in me. I am my real self. This is also the meaning of my signature here.
Feel free to PM me if you need any references for research on how to set yourself free from the Rules of Society and the Dogma of Religion, and to become Spiritually Aware and Enlightened. And embark the road towards accepting the LOVE that is GOD in you and as part of you.
Start thinking for yourself.
Please.
real _________________ .
.
light is to darkness as love is to fear...
Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:18 am
Mairi bheag
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
Real, I understand entirely what you are saying, but what you have said is, in itself, very dogmatic. It is also very typical of this age, which individualises everything. What it lacks is the vision of like-spirited people being drawn together, by a Power that is not of themselves but is nonetheless IN them (if not by nature then by Grace), to form a community, a family, a group with shared spritual experience...
...God (readers, call him/her/it what you will
for now
- the Power that is there will reveal its name to you if you are open) does not want to raise individual sheep, but a flock.
Mb
xx
[PS. If you want a concept from which to start, consider our own. It is mundane by comparison with anything so deep as a bond forged by the Creator of all things, but nevertheless it is there. We are a nurturing, caring community, with little to unite us - given our differences of race, creed, outlook, age, &c - except our sexuality. And yet there is the character of a family about us. There are those who need, and those who nurture; there are those who listen, and those who advise soundly; there are those who love and care, and those who are comforted; there are those who teach, and those who learn; and what goes round comes round, because we give what we have received, freely and in turn to others. Imagine that concept, based on a spititual call so deep, so fundamental, that it changes whole lives radically. Some might call such a thing a relgion, others might call it the end, the goal, the fulfillment of all religion; whatever the case may be, it is not a make-it-on-your-own thing - things truly of the Spirit are too big for one single vessel to hold.]
_________________ all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.
I will purposefully avoid commenting on the original post…at least for now and will just give a snippet of what I think about religion and what I believe.
I was raised Catholic…switched to Protestant views then tossed those aside and said screw organized religion when I realised that when you organize a religion to much you end up destroying the truth in what it was built upon. I thought to myself…with every religion claiming that theirs is the only true religion…someone has to be lying…then later on I thought…do they have to be lying?
At this point I started looking at many of the literal thousands of religious and spiritual beliefs of this wonderful world of ours and found something interesting…at least interesting to me. I found that at the bare bones they are all the same. With a few exceptions they all teach basically the same things…they just teach differently and use different words. They teach us about love and sacrifice. They teach us to be caretakers of our world and each other. They teach us how to become one with our creator. They give us a purpose to life. They teach us so much but yet so many religions…or should I say so many who are supposed to be the teachers no longer teach…they just read the words. There are some who try to teach but the teacher also needs a good student. While there are some who try to teach there are other who wish to twist the truth to suit their own needs such as those who wish to pit one religion against another or one group within a society against another group…all this does is foster hate. So while organized religion may have some good points…well maybe one good point and that is that you know there are others within your group that share the same core beliefs. Well enough of that for now…I could go on forever…religion is one of the things I love to discuss but hate to argue about…I find it offends some people but mainly only the ones who claim to be secure in their beliefs but in all actuality are very insecure in them.
I do believe in a supreme being and I give this being no specific name because it has none or has many.
Life is such a substantial essence…a true spiritual force which manifests in a myriad of ways…from the life giving force that embodies all living things to the energy that pulses through the smallest speck of dust. The energy embodied within us is the spirit of life and this energy is not only within us…it is everywhere…it is in all things created by the supreme being and this spiritual force truly binds us all together.
I have often wondered what the purpose of life is and I came to my own conclusion which is to grow spiritually and learn to live in peace with myself, others and nature. I am not always successful but I try.
Who in all honesty is to say what belief is right and what belief is wrong when nobody will truly know until it is all over? Can anyone here in all honesty and truth answer this question?
Who is to say Hinduism is wrong and Christianity is right?
Who is to say worshiping the Earth Mother is wrong and Judaism is right?
Nobody has the right to tell someone that what they believe is wrong when they cannot prove themselves right. It is one thing to discuss and compare and try to convince someone to a different view of things but in my view it is wrong to outright tell someone that what they believe in is wrong simply because it is not what I believe.
Eiregirl
Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:10 am
Mairi bheag
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
Eire, just think about it. It is impossible to prove
anything
at all beyond one's own existence. "
Cogito ergo sum
" is the only absolute - "awareness proves existence". Everything else is taken on
faith
, even the supposed laws of science.
If there is a God, then it may well be that some people
are
prophets - you will recognise them - they are the ones people aren't listening to, because they want to make their own minds up.
Mb
xx
_________________ all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.
I did think about it and you have substantiated my point.
We will never know the real answer to this matter while on this plain of existence. One of my main points being, in regards to religion, nobody can say their belief is absolute nor can they say everyone who does not believe what they themselves believe is wrong. That being the case nobody can say I or anyone else is damned to hell for what we believe or the way we live.
Descartes stated in “Meditations on First Philosophy” the words “I am, I exist” maybe he was telling me that I no longer have to think about it.
Hugs you tight
Eiregirl
Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:02 am
Mairi bheag
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
Yes they can. They may just be right. The prophets will be the ones who claim nothing of themselves, and indeed are usually mystified to find they have been given a message at all. All we can really say is that we don't have to listen. If they have no right to say their message is absolute, then equally you have no right to say that it isn't.
Mb
xx
_________________ all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.
Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:48 am
Cavewoman
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby
IS
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IS _________________ " The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews
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Good for you. I hope you use them in a great way one day.
