Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
Education, language and schooling system.
Everyone who knows and remembers me, knows that I'm from a small and nothern country called Finland. I was reading today's newspaper (for once) and noticed a column in there, where they - yet again - praised how good and well behaved kids we have in school. And how good schooling system we have here.
I must admit, I am proud to be a Finn and proud have free schools throughout my life, not even colleges or universities cost anything. What might cost there is food and books - that costs too much, in my opinion.
Kids in Finland are horrible these days! No respect towards teachers, every other word is the 'f' word and they just don't care. They should because education is 'the thing' in today's world.
The column was about differences between Finnish and Swedish schools, how Swedes doesn't respect their teachers at all - they can use their mobile phones how they want and the teachers say they can't do anything about it. Not only you have to have respect towards your teachers but you also have to have respect for older people as well.
There's few things what are lacking in the Finnish schooling system - language(s). We have to learn Swedish as it is our second national language yet we don't know it and it is only spoken in the west-coast. Since that is the case, we should make Russian and Sami our other national languages as well.
Specially in small cities, like where I am born and raised, should be able to at least try to study some exotic languages, like Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, whatever. We can learn German and French if we want to. When and if we start to learn some language at a very early age, say under 10, we are expected to know EVERYTHING!
Every single grammar thing there is to learn. How can you speak language if you cannot know any words? And our standards in English are very high, too high. When you look at German, France or Spain - they don't even want to learn anyother language but their own because they have enough population there and assume that everyone who comes there, knows their language.
When you graduate from high school, in the final tests you have to know EVERYTHING from elephant's poop to politics to space. What does that have to do anything about everyday life? Could we just loose our standards at least a little bit when it comes to English?
Sorry ladies, I just always get so excited when comes to languages and education. Prolly no one cares to read this but I just wanted to get this out of my chest.
kult.
_________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 2216
Location: loves land of plenty
LOL
it's an interesting perspective (I work in research), and in Britain, researchers, social commentaters etc, from the left wing are always looking to the Nordic countries (sorry we lump you all together) as an example of how things should/could be done, especially when it comes to your social welfare model, education system. In the sociology of childhood, there is a certain opinion that the nordic countries are quite conformaist, and yet your description of young peoples experiences seem to provide a picture of children who are not conformist, but actually are rebelling against their teachers.
Is there a link to this article in English? Or is the article based on published research?
Just curious.
Kx
p.s i would love to have another langauge other then English, any ~ i'm not fussy, just to say i can speak both! lol _________________ -----------------------------------------------------
'don't hate your enemies, it clouds your judgement'
~peace comes from knowing only love is real~
Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:07 pm
kultis
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
I know that we have the best schooling system here, yeah maybe in ways and there are people and teachers who come here to see how we do it.
Ok, in Finland it's quite good, the behaviour in the classroom but apparently not in Sweden. Hehe. Maybe you shouldn't lump us all together, not that I'm offended or anything!
The thing is in junior high (don't remember what it's called in Britain), when kids are 12-15 years, their behaviour is terrible! They throw things, they yell to their teachers...they do not respect anyone!
No, the article is in Finnish but if you want it I can translate it to you! Besides, I need to rehearse my English, there's an English test coming up!
kult. _________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
So here's the whole column translated to English. Feel free to correct me. Translating directly is still hard for me, not as hard as it used to be, hard enough tho. Excuse me for my mistakes.
Here goes anyways;
Hälsningar från Sverige
Hello from Sweden! Traveling is always nice. I spent a week with my students in Östersund, in our associate but how nice it was to come back home. It was to come back to Finnish high school where the students say ‘hi’ to teachers, apologize if they are late, they have done their homework and truly want to learn. None of these things are self-explanatory in Sweden.
“We can’t use mobile phones in the class room either but what can we do to them”, Swedish teachers roll their eyes while we are wondering students’ this kind of ‘free’ behavior. I don’t know when this behavior has become acceptable in Sweden but the teachers has lost their last piece of authority and pride of being a teacher. The classes can be very heterogeneous. Some barely can even read and write, therefore how can you even think of giving home assignments. And the teacher assumes no one even would bother to do their homework anyways. Teachers don’t even dare to ask (“students would get so mad”) not that anyone would do anything. The students are basically carried to the other side of their final tests, so they would get through high school. Knowledge and skills seems to be unessential.
During the same week we were there, the Swedish Minister of Education Lars Lejonberg said that anyone who has or will study languages and mathematics will be given extra points when they are applying to a university. Nice suggestion! This, if anything should get students to study but most of the teachers in this school were furious. “You cannot do or say something like this!” I never really understood why but the studying results didn’t get any better. “Sixth grade mathematics!”* Finnish high school students said about Swedish second grade of high school mathematics.
There was a thing where the Swedes are ahead of Finns; verbal communication. In Sweden, they underline communication. On the way to Sweden, I was amazed they were wondering how to say “Nice to meet you!” or what is a ‘towel’ in Swedish, after five years of studying Swedish. Help! Almost throughout the whole trip they were speaking English.
When teach some language in Finland, we concentrate more on grammar and to the irrelevant information too much. You might do well in your final tests. In the 21st century we still cannot say ‘hello’ in Swedish; isn’t anyone ashamed of it? To the curriculum we are now adding more oral exercises but still it is not enough. It’s also the attitude what counts. Oral exercises will not decrease the grammar knowledge, it’s actually the other way round; you can learn the grammar of the language while rehearsing it verbally. And the written part should be done at home.
In the school where we were, were 1,800 students. You could study there English, Latin, French, Spanish and Russian. Yes. There’s another thing what we should be ashamed of. Not only hardly anyone learns how to speak or are afraid to speak but also we do not want to understand the importance of massive language supply. Hardly anyone is interested to study Russian; on the other hand we don’t really advertise it anyways.
I strongly think that we seriously should do something to Swedish studies. Shouldn’t we study it more equal, valued and sensible optional language to basic school and to high school in stead of forcing people to study Swedish? The students could have two languages what they would have to study and could choose themselves which two they want.
Maybe one would be enough because a lot of children has enough to do with their mother tongue. Swedish is not our second national language; more like strange language to most Finns.
All in all, Swedish is beautiful and liberally educative language. I like to teach it, I like Swedish movies, literature and the music but you only learn the language if you really want to learn it. Forced Swedish is horrible and disservice for Nordic culture and society.
Oh and the text was written by a teacher, obviously. Haha.
kult. _________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
It has always been my opinion and I came by this opinion from my parents who got it from their parents…education starts and ends at home. Teaching respect for others and for yourself starts at home.
What I mean by this is…the vast majority of good students in school will come from homes where their parent(s) take an interest in there children’s education. They will come from a home where the parent(s) teach there children to respect others as well as respect for themselves. They will come from a home where they are taught to think. Even if a child comes from a wonderful home with loving and caring parents they can still get into trouble or cause trouble but I see them as being in the minority of this group. Do good students and good kids come from homes that are not loving…that are not caring? Yes they do and those kids are very special because they learned that having respect for others and having a good education will take them much farther in life than throwing things at the teacher and telling the teacher to go F themselves and they learned this without the benefit of good parents.
As far as languages…I think the more the better but that is my opinion because I love languages and feel that if a person wants to visit a country that speaks a different language they should at least try to learn a few words and phrases before going just for their own benefit and for the fun of learning.
Hugs,
Eiregirl _________________ All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are
Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine
These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.
Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:57 am
kultis
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 341
Location: a finn living in dutchland atm..
Very good point, Eire!
Actually cannot say anymore. I agree with you totally. Damn, you took all my words away. Haha.
I do love languages also but the problem is I do not learn the words as easily as I learn the grammar. I know the grammar of Swedish and it's really simple and easy (compared to English haha;)) but I'm better in English because
1) I started it at a very young age
2) I know more words in English than in Swedish
3) I've always had an attitude towards Swedish, never really cared about it until recently.
I understand different languages more than what I can speak. If I would put a little bit more effort, I would know a whole bunch of different languages.
I also agree with before going somewhere, you should learn just few phrases before going there.
kult.
_________________
There is something about that feeling
That gets me excited, when I
Step on that plane and fly away
Missing, dreaming, wanting
To step on that plane again
Go somewhere far, far away
Where dreams do come true
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but that is my opinion because I love languages and feel that if a person wants to visit a country that speaks a different language they should at least try to learn a few words and phrases before going just for their own benefit and for the fun of learning.
