Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Coming Out...
In light of a few recent events, and with efforts to setting up a teen site, I begin this thread. What I am thinking, is to start this thread, for eventual posting on the teen site. What I would like to see, is the wonderful women of melsweb share their stories of coming out. I know that some stories have extremely graphic details, but I am asking for, age appropriate postings, if you could. If you don’t know, and haven’t read beautifullyjaded’s thread, the site we are looking to start will be targeting 12-17 year old lesbians. If we could add our collective thoughts to that yet un-designed site, we could have a pretty hefty base to begin there, answering in an indirect way the questions that these teens are asking.
To help the teens in the lesbian community, to help them see the footprints already in the sand, if you could consider some of the following points, and answer if you choose:
• What would you do differently if you had a choice?
• What do you like best about having come out?
• What were some of the reasons you had for coming out.
• Do you remain in the closet? If so, why? How do you feel about it?
• Were you “outted”?
• How do you feel about yourself today?
Mahalo,
Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:35 pm
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Some general thoughts about coming out:
I am not a psychologist or a therapist, but here are some of my thoughts about the process of coming out. Some of my thoughts were gleaned from my own experiences, some from the experiences of friends and lovers, and some from reading about or interest in this topic over many years.
First of all, coming out is a process, often a lifelong one. It is something that we do again and again, in all kinds of different situations. Granted, the hardest situation may be coming out to your family but coming out at work or in social situation may be just as painful. Coming out means to understand your sexuality, your intimate needs…your identity and once you reach that point, to share that part of yourself with others.
"People concern themselves with being normal, rather than natural."
-Robert Anthony
The first step in the process is coming out to yourself, admitting that you are a lesbian when you look yourself in the mirror. Many spend some time struggling, trying to will themselves straight, trying to feel “normal,” thinking that perhaps the right man will erase whatever you feel you are. Know that being a lesbian is completely natural. We are not amoral, evil, doomed to hell, sick or abnormal. Understand that your own homophobia is not something you were born with, but born into. It is society or religion or circumstance that feeds us these untruths.
Coming out is a very personal process. It happens at different ages, in different situations and with different results. There are many colors in the lesbian rainbow, if you’ll excuse the cheesy metaphor, but we find ourselves somewhere on the spectrum from complete acceptance to utter rejection.
There are different styles of coming out. Some women come out gently. That is, they answer the question when asked honestly, but mostly do not volunteer the information. Some women come out explosively, like a nuclear bomb...they don’t care who knows it. Some come out with a combination of styles depending on the situation.
Fear of rejection is possibly the largest reason for not coming out. And, it is a very real, very daunting prospect. Just as it too each one of us time to come out to ourselves, we must give those that we come out to time to process, to try to understand. This is especially true of coming out to your parents. Be prepared to educate others or walk away from them. _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:41 pm
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Coming out…to come
I have a few different coming out stories, but I will post this one now, because it is fresh. And revisit this when it the deed is done.
Asking for help from a friend for the proposed teen site, will cost me. The price: to represent my campus on the university-wide LGBT board. So, I must come out to my boss. I first came out 22 years ago and I’m quite comfortable in my skin. Now, I can easily say, “I’m a lesbian,” and will answer honestly when asked. Somehow, the prospect of coming out at work seems a little awkward. My boss is cool, she’ll probably think that she knew already, so that’s not what is so awkward. What’s weird is that sexuality at work, at least my work, seems like an inappropriate topic. If I wanted on any other committee on campus, I could ask to join without any question. What is it about sexuality that makes it an issue? I wish I knew. But despite that, I know this coming out will not be a painful one, and I feel good about that.
-Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:45 pm
SWAY
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1560
Location: Upstate NY
Coming out being the topic, it is a process that I am still going thru everyday. I just admitted to myself not long ago that I am a lesbian, and that I have always been a lesbian.
Growing up, I always had this attraction to girls, then to women as I matured myself. Friends meant more to me than I to them. Looking back now I realize that I have always been gay, I just didn't want to admit it to myself.
I dated in high school, but not a lot. I found myself content with hanging out with my friends more than having a boyfriend. And funny enough, the two guys I dated in high school were both very feminine. Should have tipped me off that hey, I am gay! Feminine is what I am attracted to.
Another big part of my hiding is that I went to a born again christian church. There it was preached that homosexuality was bad, and somehow not normal. This made me repress all the thought and feelings that I had been taking a look at. But still, I much preferred the company of my female friends over that of the males.
Off to college I go, still active in the church at this point, and still finding my time was better spent with females. I tried to convince myself that I was just admiring them, and they were just friends at this point. Playing sports and joining soroities, just to be close to them so I could "admire" them. I was hiding behind the mask of christianity to make everyone believe that I was straight.
After college, I decided to move in with a friend. Again under the guise of christianity, we lived in harmony for awhile. Things started to change, at least for me they did. I fell in love with this woman, although I never wanted to admit it. The title we put on our relationship was best friends. Although we never became intimate, the relationship was in fact more than just friends.
Well, things finally came to a head and I realized that I couldnt hide behind this facade. I told my friend that I was gay and that our relationship was more than just friends. She didnt want to admit that what we had surpassed friendship in so many ways, so she was angry.
I met someone at this time, who is currently still my girlfriend. It has been almost 2 years since we made it official. The "friend" is still upset with me and believes that she is straight, which she very well could be.
I told my parents this past spring. Coming out to them was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I knew I couldn't do it in person, so I wrote them a very heartfelt letter. I didnt know what kind of a response I would get because my family is very small town, very narrow minded in a lot of things. Well, much to my surprise, they accepted it. In a letter back they told me that they just wanted me to be happy, and that they had it figured out way before I did. We still do not talk about it, but they are comfortable with my girlfriend and make her feel like she is part of the family.
If you have any questions for me, Hawn...or anyone, I'd be glad to answer them.
SWAY _________________ Giving myself to others has made me jaded...
Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:53 pm
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Outted, my coming out part 1
I guess you could say that I wasn’t all that sexually aware growing up. It never occurred to me that I might be a lesbian, so I was spared the struggles of coming to terms with my sexuality at a young age. I could of bought a clue…I had crushes on teachers and such, posters of Charlie’s Angels in my room, snuck Dad’s playboy…but it never occurred to me to label myself, or to somehow feel abnormal. Being in the military, we moved constantly until I was 16 and we came back to Hawaii. So maybe it was circumstance that kept me from exploring my sexuality.
Anyway, the summer after graduation, some 22 years ago, my best friend and I worked together, at her mother’s company. We were inseparable that summer. But, she went away to school and I stayed home. When she came home for Christmas break, she admitted that she was in love with me and like the sun rising that New Year’s morning, it dawned on me that I felt the same.
About two weeks after we began our intimate relationship, her mother found something that I had written to my lover. It was in an envelope, with my lover’s name on it…but she read it anyway. It was perhaps my most inspired writing. She went absolutely ballistic.
She came out of the room waving my words around and started throwing things at me, yelling how degenerate I was for corrupting her daughter. Her dad just shook his head, looked at me in disgust, and walked away from the scene. She kicked me out of their house, and forbid us to see each other. I just wanted to take my girl with me, and agonized that I couldn’t.
Even though it was some time in the mid 1970s that the American Psychological Association took homosexuality off their list of mental disorders, her parents sent her to a psychologist. She had to go everyday until she went back to California for het retraining…it served to only make her feel guilty, ashamed and dirty.
When she was at school, we phoned daily. I think one month I had a $600 phone bill, which was probably the sum total of my paycheck. She decided to leave UCLA after that semester and she came home, to me. I was still living at home, so my mom took her in too. She found acceptance in my family. It was a long time before she made peace with hers.
Even 22 years later, when I see anyone from her family, even though we are no longer together, they still look at me with disgust…like I am the source of evil…and they scurry away because they are convinced that I am contagious. They, and all those like them, no longer cause me any anguish. I just make scary eyes at them and laugh.
-Hawn
SWAY, thanks for contributing...much luck in your process, and it goes to show that you can't ever predict someone's response. _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:25 pm
realwoman
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa
Since Hawn has asked me to contibute here for the benefit of our younger friends, I gladly oblige - I told a part of my story (which is remakably similar to SWAY's) on Member Introductions, but will elaborate a bit to specifically address the questions Hawnie poses:
I only made PEACE with who I am some two years ago, at the age of 37, although I knew I was gay since I was 12! What a lot of wasted time! And for what? Why?
Well, growing up in an Patriarchic Calvinistic society does not make it easy, now does it? And, as SWAY says, it is a process - according to one Joe Kort - a six step process - see this link: http://www.joekort.com/PDF/cassmodelofidentityformation2.pdf
I never had any serious relationships with guys throughout school, varsity, and afterwards, although there was one guy (with long black hair ) who I thought was the one when I was 24. For the rest, I did not even realise it when they were interested - it just went right past me!! I always considered guys to be my mates - can hold my own when it comes to drinking a few beers, and telling jokes and stories, etc! One or two even proposed to me, but I thought they were just lonely, and would not even contemplate the thought! (Although I have a high sex drive, they just did not do it for me!)
However, using the yardstick of the rules of the 'normal' society, I was not 'normal' - but I did not have a word for what I was! I suppressed my feelings for women whom I admired, telling myself that it was just 'admiration', and I avoided the woman whose sexual presence had an intimidating effect on me! But I made a circle of female friends, "preferring their company" (thanks S), and tolerating their boyfriends as a necesity to continue to be friends with them!
I loved my best friend in high school to bits (in a 'friendship' way, I told myself), but she must have known better, because one day she told me that I had a 'serious problem'. She did not want to say what my problem was, and started to avoid me. Deep inside me, I knew what she meant, but did not want to admit it to myself - It Just Couldn't Be!! (IDENTITY CONFUSION) I convinced myself that she was just jealous because I was elected for school council and she not, and the loss of our friendship nearly broke my heart. We were friends for over three years - between ages 16 and 18.
When I was 21, I moved in with my good friend from church - and we lived together for 12 years as friends. The relationship we had during that time was however more than just friends, it was a marital one in all respects, bar one. (IDENTITY COMPARISON) So, while I was celibate, she dated, and I was there for her in between the boyfriends ... and to chase spiders away! But she always avoided hugging me or kissing me on the lips! (She still does - ). We will always be friends, and when I came out to her - she said that she "has room for it, and will always have room for me". She is most probably straight, or perhaps just much more deeply indoctrinated by the rules of society than me...
Anyway, my working circumstances changed about three years ago - I had to move to another city. This was the best thing that could have happened - all of a sudden I was alone, and had to face myself. I slowly realised that I must just accept the fact that I was gay - once, when overseas, I almost went to a lesbian bar in London, but just did not have the guts!! (IDENTITY TOLERANCE) - I even invited a friend over for a weekend that I thought was lesbian, and tried my best to make a pass, but she was not, and I felt the total and complete idiot!!
Then there was this one girl with whom I became friends at work. (she and my friend whom I stayed with could not tolerate the sight of each other!) We were friends for over 6 years, having a beer or two every Friday afternoon, later on I started going over to her place after work on a Friday evening, and we would chat the night away, about the meaning of life, and all sorts of other nonsence. Driving back home the next morning, I would often have all these sexual feelings - but ascribed them to too much alcohol!! After I moved away, we saw less of each other, but I still visited for a sleep-over once a month or so.
And then, it happened. At her birthday party, we were sitting together behind the bar counter, serving the other guests, and chatting, when she stroke my back - apparently unconsciously - and I just knew. She phoned me three days later, asking me over again for the next weekend, and I knew what was about to happen. I knew I should have said no, but I was like on autopilot. I drove the 160km to her place that next Friday in a haze, and she changed my skewed perception about myself with four simple words, (and some definitive action too!!) It was the most NORMAL and NATURAL thing that I had ever experienced!!!
All of a sudden, everything just fell into place and the world started to make sence. i still tried to fight it though, for about six months, until I saw a play one night, and realised that life is just too short to keep on lying to myself. (IDENTITY ACCEPTANCE) Unfortunately, my heart was also really broken for the first time, as this 'good straight girl' suffered severely from guilt, and denied to accept what had happened between us. She ascribed it to 'too much alcohol', although we each only had one glass!! I tried for a while to restore the friendship, but she is still not able to face me. I therefore lost a good friend and, in certain respects, also a soulmate! I will however always be thankful to her, as she helped me over the final bridge to make PEACE with who I am!
I then proceeded to start to tell my friends about the fact that I have accepted my gayness (IDENTITY PRIDE) - most of them reacted with - "what took you so long - we knew it all along" - I have not yet told my parents, and probably wont do so for a long time - they are quite conservative, and very proud of me, and of what I have achieved profesionally. However, one of my brothers is also gay, and his coming out to them have almost devastated them - I dont want to hurt them unnecessarily. When I meet someone that I cannot live without, I will be proud to tell them.
I am probably now between the phases of IDENTITY PRIDE and IDENTITY SYNTHESIS - And I am still in awe at how great it is to be a REAL gay WOMAN!
Now for Hawn's Questions:
* What would you do differently if you had a choice?
Be more honest with myself about my feelings - recognise them, although I could not name them, and try to accept them.
• What do you like best about having come out?
The constant feeling of inner PEACE. I am now comfortable in my own skin - no longer trying to make myself unattractive to men by being overweight - but for the first time letting the WOMAN in me appear - going for facials, pedicures, waxes, things I would never have done before - and i am doing it for ME!
•
What were some of the reasons you had for coming out.
I have lied long enough to myself - I will no longer live a lie! Also see next question
• Do you remain in the closet? If so, why? How do you feel about it?
If anyone asks me, I tell the truth about who I am - but for the rest, I am just me - and my sexuality is not all that defines me.
• Were you “outted”?
No, not yet, and it could be detrimental to my work environment
• How do you feel about yourself today?
For the first time I have a good self-image, at peace with who I am, and recognising my shortcomings, conciously improving myself to be the best ME I can BE!
And I am glad that I understand, for the first time, the difference between religion and spirituality, between the rules and dogma of society, and having a value system!
So, it is a process - a lifelong process. It is also a very brave and big decision. Also check out this helpful link for some things to consider before coming out:
http://www.joekort.com/articles60.htm
(Geez Hawnie - now you owe me - this was hard!! ) _________________ .
.
light is to darkness as love is to fear...
Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:08 pm
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
quote:
(Geez Hawnie - now you owe me - this was hard!! )
Real, I suppose I do. I didn't mean for it feel like homework. Let's see, Hawaii doesn't make a decent wine...so will Kona Coffee or Macadamia Nut Chocolate candies do?
Thanks for sharing your story. And, welcome into the sunshine sweetie, marvelous journey!
Me ke aloha pumehana,
-Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:52 pm
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
A Little Chicken
At 18, I came out to my sister first because I knew she would accept me unconditionally. She was only 13 at the time, but she knew already. It was an easy conversation which ended with
"Cool?"
"Yeah, cool."
Coming out to my Mom was also essentially a non-conversation. I kinda chickened out from the speech that I had rehearsed a hundred times. My Mom had always taken in strays (people, not animals). So when I asked her if my g/f could move in, she said yes. And I said, "we're more than friends." And she told me "I said okay." We don't talk about. She'd like to think that I'm a 40 yr old virgin, it makes her feel better. She doesn't want to talk to my sister about her sex life either, so I don't feel like I am missing anything and I don't push her. She and the rest of my extremely large family welcomed my g/f as one of the clan.
Recently, my nephew (age 9) wanted the computer to play. Well, melsweb was open and the tab at the bottom clearly says, Lesbian Forum. He just kinda stilled a bit, and looked at me. "Auntie likes girls." He tells me that he likes girls too. Maybe later we will have to talk more, but for now...I am happy that I've been blessed with family that loves me, accepts me, respects me. It has made my journey easier indeed.
-Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:08 pm
Greenshadow
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Near a tea cup
Re: A Little Chicken
quote:Originally posted by HawaiianEyes:
"Auntie likes girls." He tells me that he likes girls too.
-Hawn
That's actually very similar to my Dad's reaction when I first came out to him.
Except for the "Auntie" part of course... _________________ "My food is problematic."
-River Tam
Firefly
Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:26 pm
Ximene_Xuxa
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Gardening
Hi Hawn, sweetie:
Well, I'm fairly new here, and though I'm probably not the best one to ask, I'm giving my response, albiet, hopefully a short one. I had a rough childhood with an abusive father. It gave me a different look at the way men can be. And while I thought that men couldn't all be that way, from about the age of eleven, I was kinda already decided. I also grew up in a very Christian, very Hispanic household with my grandparents, so being a lesbian was not encouraged. I learned to hide it very well, but I was ever the tomboy regardless. Both of my sisters went through the boy-crazy stage, but all I could seem to do was admire the other girls. Gym class was quite difficult because of that, and later on joining the military was not any easier because of the close female proximity. When I went further on in the military and the number of females in training dwindled, the guys began to take notice of me, and because I thought that was what was expected of me, I took notice of them as well. I got married to a man that I should not have, and because the affection to him was not there, he cheated on me, and we got seperated then later divorced. It was a hard time for me, but a time when I was able to do some soul searching. I turned to the internet and made a few friends, most of them female. It was then, almost a year ago that the past came back to haunt me, and I realized I'd been ignoring what was right in front of me the whole time. Until recently the line between being straight and lesbian was a blurry one, and I was convinced that because I had been with a man before, I must be bisexual. In my situation, I found that that's not necessarily true. I'm happy that I'm a lesbian.
As for coming out... in one of the biggest instances, the choice to do so was taken away from me, and I was outed in one of the most painful ways possible. As part of being married, I also aquired two of the best children a mother can ask for. As a ploy to try and take them from me, my ex threatened to use my sexuality against me with his mother, and even though I did not like it, I decided to for once stop the façade and be "straight" with her. She didn't like what I had to tell her, but she valued the honesty. She was also willing to admit that the children were better off with me than with him, so I was able to keep them.
There were a few other instances, but none of them came close to being as painful. And even though coming out like that was hard, I'll never stop being who I am, and I'll never hide from myself who I am again. I'm not sure how this helps, but maybe it could be a lesson on being true to yourself.
-xx-
Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:05 am
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
greenshadow,
If only it could be as easy as that in every situation. Thanks for your response.
Aloha,
Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:01 am
Greenshadow
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Near a tea cup
Yeah, I've been
extremely
lucky so far. When I told my mom, she wasn't just okay with it, she's actually glad that I'm a lesbian. I'm not entirely sure why she is, but she's totally awesome for stuff like that. _________________ "My food is problematic."
-River Tam
Firefly
Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:56 am
Hawaiian
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa
Aloha XX,
Thank you for sharing your honest response. I think that the varied situations and experiences that we have as a group may help someone out there who is searching for answers. I have to believe that by sharing we offer a candle to eyes that we'll never see.
I'm happy that you got the kids, congratulations. And, welcome to mels. It was nice chatting with you today, hope to see you again.
Aloha,
-Hawn _________________ 'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.
Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:33 am
realwoman
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa
As 'coming out' seems to be a recurring theme in the posts and discussions in chat, I thought I'd bring this one forward again...
(the time of telling my parents is drawing nearer and nearer every day now!!) _________________ .
.
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) who I thought was the one when I was 24. For the rest, I did not even realise it when they were interested - it just went right past me!! I always considered guys to be my mates - can hold my own when it comes to drinking a few beers, and telling jokes and stories, etc! One or two even proposed to me, but I thought they were just lonely, and would not even contemplate the thought! (Although I have a high sex drive, they just did not do it for me!)
). We will always be friends, and when I came out to her - she said that she "has room for it, and will always have room for me". She is most probably straight, or perhaps just much more deeply indoctrinated by the rules of society than me...
)
