I realize by reading the posts that there has been some amount of tension around a certain topic. I just want to say that while it is sad to see this happen, it is so refreshing and affirming to see so many women standing up for what is 'right' in a relationship - whether the relationship is good or bad. There are not many places anymore where we, as women, can feel that the other members of our gender have 'got our back'. My partner and I don't post very often but we do keep track of the posts and everyone's talented writings. What a special group of women reside here at Mel's!
Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:46 pm
Phoenix Moderators
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida
It's great to hear from you Lorisue. Yes, it is nice to know that honor is not just a nice idea, but something some of still hold dear.
Where are all the good women? Why is it so hard to be honest with our partners if we are not in love, unhappy, or wanting to leave? Is it the money? Is it the thrill of the sneaking? Right now, I am so upset over some things that have nothing to do with the post I think you are referrring to.
Lying, cheating, hypocrites hiding behind lofty statements. Am I without sin? Have I done bad things in my life? Yes, we all have. At some point though, if we are ever to have a truly deep and loving relationship, we have to make the choice to be honorable.
Forgive my ranting and venting.
Have a good day and thanks for sharing,
brat _________________ "A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night
Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:22 pm
topaz117
Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Southeast USA
Brat and LoriSue,
Interesting that this particular topic has surfaced...I did a lot of musing last night before and after posting...and came to a sort of conclusion based on my experience so far with being a woman in love with another woman, and meeting others in similar situations.
Unfortunately, in today's world, as open-minded as society is becoming, a lot us in same-sex relationship still find that it is necessary, for one reason or another, to keep our relationship secret from all but a cherished few friends and family. We still manage to live a beautiful life together, but the rules are different than for heterosexual couples. My love and I have no other choice at the moment but to keep our true relationship just between us, simply because of her children and their father, who, if he knew, would make trouble that we just don't want to have to handle at the moment. We also have a fairly new business together (we are in the process of opening a new photography studio) and I'm not sure how that would impact us, either. We live in a city of highly intelligent white collar government business people, but we are still in the South, too. And then although I don't think about it often, there is still a threat of physical danger from homophobic people.
That said, one can see that it is necessary, even for people who are by nature honest to a fault, to learn to 'fly under the radar' when it comes to questions about the relationship. I am used to giving an open, honest answer when asked a question, but in the past two years, I have had to learn to sidestep questions with a less than truthful explanation at times, and have learned to put up a 'smokescreen' where necessary to keep our 'friendship' from being viewed as anything more. This new way of life has led to a few discussions between me and my partner, in which each of us reassured the other that we will never lie to the other, and there will always be total honesty between us, no matter what we have to tell others. We really have to trust each other totally for all of this to work. Believe me, it's not that we really care what people think, it's just that we have decided, for now, to never confirm anything when asked...that way, people can think what they will, but they will never really know for sure...some of them are just too damn nosy, anyway, LOL.
I feel that when this happens to some couples, though, a side effect also can happen since both partners have, by necessity, learned to be a bit deceptive...maybe the temptation to deceive their own partners is a bit stronger at times?? Just a theory. Sometimes when you have to learn to think differently than you normally would...then when temptation comes along the mind takes it one step further..?? I'm not sure I was able to word this the way I wanted...
I'm not trying to justify someone who would cheat on their partner...In 13 years of marriage I never cheated...and believe me, I was starved for love and attention lots of times.
It's just that I have met several lesbian couples who are absolutely devoted to each other, and although they didn't cheat on each other, one couple in particular, I felt, had lost all their integrity as people. They pretended to support me when I first began my relationship...I lived with them for a while until I could relocate to my current state, and during that time they took advantage of my generosity...they stole from me...they 'helped' me move, and 'helped' themselves to my personal things--I still don't know how much they took...I did a photo shoot for their church, and instead of mailing the payment to me, they took it and spent it. I'm not a stupid person, but was at a very vulnerable time in my life. I reached out to these women..they seemed to be a 'supercouple'..they had such a nice cozy home, and were bonded to each other completely. I paid them well to live there, too. They had developed such a talent for lying and deceit, they were able to justify anything to suit themselves.
It really saddened me to know how much they had to go through (family issues, children etc) to be together, only to live such a defeated life.
I know this was long, but I think as women who love women, with the issues we face, that we have to choose to be honorable, as Brat said.
I wish I could be as short with words and still get my point across, but this felt good to write.
Topaz
Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:32 pm
cupcakes
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY
That 's a very interesting and well thought out theory, but cheating and decieving happens among straight people too. So, what's their excuse?
Certainly we are pressured from all different directions by all sorts of problems, and good people do bad things.
I think that couple just didn't have enough respect for you. Not because of all the things they went through, which i'm sure must have been trying, but because that's the way they are. If anything, their experiences should have made them more sensitive to your situation.
I could see the same thing happening if we replaced that lesbian couple with any other.
I think cheating is a concept that has to do with the values of western society that have been ingrained in us. Evolutionarily speaking, there is no biological reason for humans to be monogamous. Imagine another culture, where marriage to multiple people is perfectly normal, would there still be a concept of cheating? Their language probably wouldn't even have a word for it.
Anyways, I don't know what I'm talking about, just trying to do a friendly critique of your theory and stating my ideas about the origin of cheating. Critique me too if you like. It's fun to argue.
Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:22 pm
irishdyke
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 115
I'm not sure is this is completely on topic but after reading the posts I was reminded of a small thing that happened last night. I suppose it fits under heading of honest and open life.
My gf and I, her two children, and a male friend of ours had gone out to the lake for a few hours to play, then when we came back to town we stopped at a local fast food place. While we were standing in line I happened to look over at a table and noticied that the redneck who was sitting with his wife was taking time out of his busy day to look at us strangely. I didn't know why at first, til I took another look at us. My gf and I are both butch, her children are blond clones of her, and our male friend looks similiar to her six year old son. Our friend looked as if he could have been our donor. Which, I'm sure, similar thoughts were going through the 'neck's mind. Something to the point of, "If that man and woman are married, why is she hugging on that other girl that way? And why is she dressed that way with a crew cut?" Oh, and just a moment before my gf and I had hugged. Anyway, I mentioned our redneck friend to our boy / friend and he started to say things such as, "Where is he at? You want me to go talk to him? As you can see, I'm not being quiet about this."
My gf and I are out, we dont' try to hide it...we are honest with ourselves and with society. I put my arm around our male friend and said, "We are an American family." BTW, he's not the children's father, but putting he and my gf side by side with the kids, a trained professional wouldn't be able to say for sure.
Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:26 pm
topaz117
Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Southeast USA
Hi little Cupcakes!
Yes, I know that cheating happens among straight people as well; my theory involves the fact that gay couples must hide their identity sometimes for various reasons, and that can produce a tendency to be deceptive in other areas as well...maybe. I think a gay woman should be very sure of her choice to have a life with another woman, and be very sure of who she is, in other words, okay in her own skin...because sometimes it isn't easy. That said, it is worth it, for me.
Didn't you say that you are 'in the closet' because you want people to get to know you before 'stereotyping'? Funny how that works...we know who we are, but we feel the need to play by society's rules anyway.
I think that if I lived in a culture where multiple partners were allowed, I wouldn't do very well, LOL...I don't share my woman.
Cupcakes, you are a breath of fresh air, dear...just be true to yourself...you have a whole life ahead of you...it took some of us twice as long to 'get it'.
I think this post of mine is a bit scattered..I am trying to make lunch at the same time! LOL..
Topaz
Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:56 pm
cupcakes
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY
hi topaz
I think that might be true in some cases, but I really hope that doesn't ever happen to me. If deceptiveness really came in the same package as being a lesbian, then I'd rather be nothing. I won't compromise my conscience for sex. I agree that hiding something so fundamental, such as identity, could really fuck with a girl's head, which in turn, fucks with her actions.
Maybe i'm just in a crummy mood, but given the the way society seems to be moving (more conservative every day...president ticks me off) I only see more reasons to hide a gay identity. I'm pondering whether someone, who is not in love, is better off just staying out of it all together. And if I like women, but never act on it, does that still make me a lesbian?
I'm really glad that you are comfortable in your skin and I hope you and 'your woman' last forever. Your possessiveness of her is beautiful.
Cupcake<3
(I have strawberry frosting and sprinkles)
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