BACK TO HOME PAGE SITE NAVIGATION CONTACT STORY FORUM GENERAL FORUM   Horoscope  Radio  Gallery  FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   PM's   
Log in 

Poetry Forum Index -> General board

Discussion about [F]
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
LifeVita6
  Author    Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
Discussion about [F]

Help yourselves.
_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.


Last edited by Mairi bheag on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:22 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Happier Blue



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 379


It is sad to think that only friends comment on the wealth and diversity of poetry that is posted here. And, even though we are a very polite group, it should go without saying that all comments are welcomed as long as they are constructive and well intended.

There is a very little used forum, Poetry for Critique, where anyone seeking help and advice on their poetry can go.

This seems to me to be a well intended but ill-conceived idea.

~Blue~

Post Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:56 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
wyldhart



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 1216


deleted.....

Last edited by wyldhart on Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:09 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger  Reply with quote  
Sunny



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: Massachusetts


Blue & Wyld,
From what I've gathered, the idea to impliment the [F] was to open up posts on this board to critiques and other constructive comments beyond that which is often seen here. As you touched on, Blue, the Feedback Forum is a bit like a black hole where very few folks visit. I've posted there and have been delighted with the feedback I've received from some very gifted women, but that forum seems to be rarely visited by the majority of Mel's members. We have a number of very talented writers on this board who have not weighed in on any of the writes in the feedback forum. Perhaps they'll be more inclined to do so on the Emotional Poetry Forum. Perhaps not...

I recently posted two poems with [F]'s to this board, hoping that I'd get more in depth feedback and critique than is typical from the Emotional Poetry Forum (and I have). An [F] to me says I'm looking for more than the supportive pats on the back, hugs and smileys. I really want to know what worked and what didn't and perhaps get some suggestions as to what changes I might make to improve my writing skills. I may not want that type of feedback for other posts. Perhaps they're really emotionally loaded and I'm not ready for detailed critique or maybe they were more for fun than anything - I'll refrain from the [F] in that case.

When I see a poem on the emotional poetry forum that I love I'll say so, but if it doesn't work for me, I see typos, or I find it difficult to read because of grammatical issues, I refrain from commenting on those issues (and it seems others often do as well) because this forum rarely has such feedback and not everyone is looking for that type of feedback. Instead one might post "nice write", "touching", Crying or Very sad , Smile , etc. If someone sees glaring typos in one of my writes, I want to know and others may as well. If not, that's fine too. The [F] to me serves to invite folks to share observations beyond the support that is tyically shared on this forum.

This doesn't obligate anyone to provide in depth feedback, it simply invites it with the understanding that the author has considered the possibility that the reader may find flaws and say so. Any constructive feedback I've ever received at Mels was presented in a wonderfully supportive manner and I trust that this will continue to be the case with 99+% of the Mels membership. I really don't see what the harm is in inviting more detailed feedback on this forum. To me, it seems that the [F] option only serves to enrich an already wonderful board. It does nothing to take away from the board.
_________________
All poems posted by Sunny: ©2006 - 2007 Sunny (UN: Sunny at melswebs.com). All rights reserved. Any unauthorized reproduction is strictly prohibited. In other words, if you want to copy it, you need to get Sunny’s permission first.

Post Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:21 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


I am with Blue and Wyld. To me, if a gal pours her heart into writing something and cares enough to post it here, then it is, to me, trivial and almost insulting to respond to that work with a smiley or the ubiquitous but ultimately generic "nice write."

just checked out your "She Walks In Beauty Like The Night"...nice write Very Happy

Nothing ever vexed me more than showing someone a poem I was proud of and having them pass it back and say "that's nice." People who don't write poetry may not know what else to say, but poets should.

Thoreau said, "books should be read as deliberately and reservedly as they were written." The same, and more, should go for poetry, where every word means so much.

Now, if someone doesn't respect the craft enough to at least proofread their work, and many here obviously don't, I don't have the time to do their work for them, unless they've been shipwrecked on a deserted island from birth and really don't realize that they should do these basic things.

Enough on that.

What I really want to say here is that when I post another little piece o' my heart now baybee, I appreciate comments that not only tell me it was liked or disliked but WHY. Then I know what is reaching people, or not. And if you don't care what readers think, then keep it in your little spiral notebook.

When I have been asked, in person, to give my opinion on someone's writing, they always fall into one of two categories. One is the person who hasn't got real talent or poetic ambition, but who still cared enough to write down their thoughts and ask for an opinion. I ALWAYS say something kind and encouraging to these people. The other is the person with genuine ability, who can profit from an in depth response to what they have created.

Neither is "better" than the other. But one mustn't crush the first with heavy, and ultimately pointless, criticism, or insult the latter with pablum that doesn't respect their ability and their capacity to go further with it.

It is not difficult to tell the one from the other,at all. They don't need to wear identifying marks.

Respect the craft. Respect each other. To me, that should be enough.

--Cookie

PS--WHAT moderators??? I only ever see just one, and she only comments on responses to her own work.

Post Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:11 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
ghost



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 2828
Location: MIA


sunny, i couldnt have said it better myself. i know i have been absent from the poetry board for some time now, but i have personal reasons for that.

instead i have been concentrating on new members where possible and also on the storyboards.

mels is not a literary site. we have never claimed it as such either. so i think mb's idea of actually asking for more in-depth crit of a literary type is a good idea. for those that want it, it is a welcome opportunity to learn from other, and to grow in their poetic skills. for the majority of the members though, mels boards are an outlet, where they are free to say how they feel and express it in their own way. NO POETRY EVER WRITTEN IS "BAD". as long as it comes from the heart. i have read poems on these boards that made me cry, and they would get an F in lit class for the style and stuff.

it doesnt matter. we write poetry from our hearts. some do it with more style than others. to those with more talent and more skill, i can just say this: it never hurt to say a few words of encouragement to others. and if they ask for help, give it. freely.

i agree with sunny that the poetry listed on the feedback forum is rarely visited by regular members of the boards. myself included, i am sorry to add. i do not feel myself qualified to give a lit crit on poetry, as language is my strong point. so i think its a jolly good idea to ask for crit by using the (F), and still allow others to enjoy the poem as it stands. and allow poets who want to grow, the chance for some of their best work to be read by the regular members as well.

with very fond regards to all
ghost

ps cookie....

it is not a question of "disrespecting the craft". some people just want to get things off their chests, and not write essays or stories about it. that leaves them with poetry. and some of them really dont know any better. or are not capable of fixing it. or dont even realise that it needs a spellcheck. I DONT CARE A HOOT. they can say what they want, exactly as they feel it. grammar mistakes and all. as long as it comes from the heart.

and there are things going on behind the scenes that take a lot of effort on the parts of the moderators and administrators. we are not always visible. and we are not responsible for carrying the boards by ourselves. it is the polite thing to do when you read someone's work, to comment on it. and if you can find nothing else to say, then a "nice write" will do fine. i posted a thread on the storyboards reprimanding the members for not commenting on stories they have read. i hate seeing a story (or poem for that matter) getting a 100 or more reads, WITHOUT ONE SINGLE COMMENT. and then its not a bad story either. so come on ladies, make this a team effort.

enough preaching. i am going to bed now.

ghost
_________________
MIA

Post Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:15 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
fortheloveofagood...
Site Admin


Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 2216
Location: loves land of plenty


Hi there,

Reading this thread with genuine interest. As much as I can see Happier Blue's, Wyld and Cookie's point of view. I feel I am in agreement with Sunny and Ghost, mainly because this is not a Crit Lit site, but the F is an opportunity to let others know who would welcome more constructive feedback in the main forum, where the action is mostly centred.

I have also have to say that I didn't even know I wrote poetry that anybody else would even want to read, but I posted, and when I got these replies that to others seem trite, I was in shock, I didn't sit there and think, I'm a poetic genius let me go and submit my poems to get published. I thought my experiences and my way of understanding and documenting my experiences mean something to someone else. Mels is also the first time I have ever read poetry, so I decided to read the poems of people who replied to mine, because I thought if i "speak to them" maybe their work will "speak to me", and this is how a few friendships were born, which has also lead to - in my most busiest periods, just reading their work which i am confident i will like and replying to them.

However, like Ghost, if I see someone with 0 replies, I think of my early days, and the encouragement I received and pick those poems out to reply to, I also think did Eire miss this Razz, coz she's so fabulous at retaining people at mels and making them believe in their abilities. Since being here (sorry if i am going on) I have decided that instead of just writing when I feel like I am going to burst if I don't, that I can craft a poem of my own creative choosing and learn the difference from the two. Without those "love this, great write, nicely done, more please" from the wonderful womens of mels, I would not have a poem, that i felt confident enought to put (F) behind, in order to develop my skills. I would have said, what skills, I just write how i feel. I will always have poems that I would never put the (F) too, that get me from A to B without going mad. But it's lovely to feel I have a choice. So who knows what talent we are nurturing here, and don't get me on edit, i never did that either, but now I think about others reading my poems, before i never thought anyone would get to the end of a single one.

So i think what I am saying is that everyone's experience and needs from mels and for their poetry is different, as you have all illustrated in your posts. I think the (F) brings more diversity to mels and that can only be a good thing.

Kelly
p.s I also have to say that both HappierBlue and Smart have each given me a fantastic heartfelt reply to two different poems and they will always stand out in my memory. It is good to be specific, but when you can't, a nicely done is also very satisfying!
_________________
-----------------------------------------------------

'don't hate your enemies, it clouds your judgement'

~peace comes from knowing only love is real~

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:05 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Happier Blue



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 379
FEEDBACK WANTED? PUT [F] AFTER THE TITLE

While there have been many good issues raised here, the problem still remains the same. This is not simply a redundant system but one that lacks any structure and control. The problem is that this system was put into place with the very faulty logic that someone will respond if they see a poem with an [F] after the title. Who??? Certainly anyone who asks for feedback does so with the very real expectation that they will receive feedback. But what mechanism has been put in place to insure this will happen???

Sunny, I do not doubt for a moment your sincerity and desire to continue to grow as a writer. Yes, you received some very good feedback but quite honestly you always receive many comments. But what about the girl who doesn’t??? What about the new members???

I watched two posts in the Sensual/Erotic that both asked for feedback. One was from a new member and after receiving a number of views but no comments, she posted a comment of her own asking again very nicely if someone would provide some kind of advice. This was a total embarrassment and a very poor welcome to a new member.

I have no doubt that the Administrators and Moderators have a great deal going on behind the scenes and I thank them for their efforts. But ... if there is so much going on behind the scenes that they have no time to comment and encourage new writers, why not ask for more help??? I believe this is really a little lame because there are some Moderators who still somehow find time to post their own work, reply to comments and offer comments to their own circle of friends while ignoring everyone else.

I also believe that we denigrate the value and efforts of all of the writers in this community by saying it is not a literary site. It maybe many other things but to the women who post their written work here for everyone to read and share, it is very much a literary site.

Yes, the Poetry for Critique forum is rarely used but it is there for anyone who wants to use it. Maybe it is seldom used because the majority who post do not want their poetry opened to criticism no matter how objective and well intended it may be.

Did anyone think of asking the membership if they wanted a new feedback system, how would it best work and who would be responsible for over-seeing it???

Finally, of all of those who stand here in support of this new feedback system, how many to date have actually taken the time to participate???

~Blue~

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:43 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland


quote:
Originally posted by Happier Blue:


This seems to me to be a well intended but ill-conceived idea.

~Blue~



It was suggested to me by a poet who welcomed feedback but who never got any in the little-visited "Feedback" section. It was suggested to Mel who OKed it. Ironically, it seems to be the topic on here which is getting most critical feedback.

Mb
xx

_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:27 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland


quote:
Originally posted by wyldhart:
You'll see few, if any, comments on someone's work from a moderator.


ghost and I, at the very least, comment as much as time will allow. I have seen plenty of comments from other moderators too. I always try to make sure that no one slips off the front page with a zero against her poem, even if I don't offer a comment of my own.

Mb
xx

_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:30 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland


quote:
Originally posted by seansun:
. To me, it seems that the [F] option only serves to enrich an already wonderful board. It does nothing to take away from the board.


Which was our intention.

Mb
xx

_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:32 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland
Re: FEEDBACK WANTED? PUT [F] AFTER THE TITLE

quote:
Originally posted by Happier Blue:

Finally, of all of those who stand here in support of this new feedback system, how many to date have actually taken the time to participate???

~Blue~



In my own case, I have been away for several days, and saw no requests before I left. I will look for them as soon as I make my next "patrol" round the forum.

Mb
xx

_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:35 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Happier Blue



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 379


quote:
Originally posted by Mairi bheag:
quote:
Originally posted by wyldhart:
You'll see few, if any, comments on someone's work from a moderator.


ghost and I, at the very least, comment as much as time will allow. I have seen plenty of comments from other moderators too.

Mb
xx



Not to flog an already dead horse, but for the record of the 15 moderators listed for the months of September and October ...

6 have left no comments
1 left 1 comment
1 left 4 comments
1 left 10 comments

So, 9 of the 15 moderators left 15 comments in the past two months.

~Blue~

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:18 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Mairi bheag



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 5094
Location: Scotland


Y'know what... enjoy yourselves, folks, because I'm not watching this thread any more. I'll just get on doing what I'm doing.
_________________
all posted material (c) Marie Marshall, unless otherwise stated.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:36 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Who gives a shit how much anyone comments as long as someone does?
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
  Display posts from previous:      
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Last Thread | Next Thread  >

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
LifeVita3

 

 



Search For Posters!


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

In Association with Amazon.com
     
Terms & Conditions Privacy Statement Acknowledgements