BACK TO HOME PAGE SITE NAVIGATION CONTACT STORY FORUM GENERAL FORUM   Horoscope  Radio  Gallery  FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   PM's   
Log in 

Poetry Forum Index -> General board

Poetry and songwriting - similarities and differences?

LifeVita6
  Author    Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Sunny



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: Massachusetts
Poetry and songwriting - similarities and differences?

I've been having an ongoing discussion with a songwriter/musician friend of mine about the similarities/differences between song lyrics and poetry. It's been a wonderful sharing of experiences and ideas that continues to blossom. Since I'm incredibly new poetry I thought I'd drop a note here and see what light and insight others with more experience and knowledge might have to share. Some of the questions we've been tossing back and forth:

When are lyrics poetry?

What makes poetry suited for song?

Where do the two diverge?

How does one transition from poetry to songwriting and vice versa?

Poetic phrasing isn't always suited to contemporary songwriting - (ie, So into the woods, I did retreat.) Songwriting in her opinion (with which I agree) necessitates that the lyrics be more conversational to gain credibility and acceptance within its commercial market. Does the same hold true for contemporary poetry?


Anyone care to share their thoughts and insight?

As always, I thank you all for all that you share
Exclamation

Sunny Cool
_________________
All poems posted by Sunny: ©2006 - 2007 Sunny (UN: Sunny at melswebs.com). All rights reserved. Any unauthorized reproduction is strictly prohibited. In other words, if you want to copy it, you need to get Sunny’s permission first.


Last edited by Sunny on Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Sunny,

That is a wonderful discussion you must be having with your friend.

Poetry has been around much longer than written history so the exact time of its origin will forever be unknown because the origin of poetry delves into prehistoric times.

Chants and songs are among the earliest forms of poetry. What was the purpose of these prehistoric “literary” devices? The most widely believed purposes were to keep a record of history, laws and spiritual rituals. Because of these reasons it had to be easy to recite and easy to remember hence the sing song nature of some poetry. Poetry was used in this manner to help them remember things and that is why most poetry is rhythmic and easy to remember. In ancient times people used poetry to tell of important events that had taken place or tasks to be performed in the building of a house or the making of a rug. The poetry of old was used to keep a record of what was known. It kept their history and even their laws were put into poetry. Today we have rhymes that have been handed down from one generation to the next in the oral tradition.

When are lyrics poetry? Always. A person could easily change that question to a question more suited to what I believe you are asking (correct me if I’m wrong). When is a song poetry? The answer is the same…always. However not all lyrical poetry is meant to be sung.

In my own mind there is no difference between song lyrics and poetry because song is a form of poetry. Just as there are lyrical poems that are not meant to be sung there are those that are meant to be. That is the difference between “song” and other forms of poetry…one is meant to be sung the others are not.

Much of the confusion derives from the word “lyric” being incorrectly associated solely with song.
Lyric poetry is one of the three main groups of poetry, the others being narrative and dramatic. The term lyric comes from the lyre which is a musical instrument and that is why the incorrect association is there. Lyric poetry is the most commonly used form in today’s poetic literature and most often there is a predominate emotional element in the poem that causes the reader to recall a similar emotional experience but lyric poetry is wide ranging from very complex and in-depth to the wittiness of a limerick.

Where do the two diverge? and What makes poetry suited for song? Sound…a song is meant to be sung so it must have that quality about it and most often it will be accompanied by music. Some other forms of poetry are meant to be accompanied by music as well and it was very common in ancient Grecian plays were poetic verse was recited to music but not meant to be sung. That is were the song and other forms of poetry diverge from each other.

How does one transition from poetry to songwriting and vice versa? Write a poem that you can sing and you have written a song…write a song and you have written a poem.

Go to your internet search and type in the following words “song lyrics” or type in the name of favorite singer or song then the word “lyrics” then look at it and read the lyrics most often you will easily see the poetic nature of the song because song is a form of poetry. It is just meant to be sung.

Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:28 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
Sunny



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: Massachusetts


Eire,
Thanks so much for you interest and contribution to this thread. Apparently though, you've not listened to some of the "songs" my 17 yr old son listens to or you might think a bit differently about the poetic quality of songs. Twisted Evil I'm convinced the goal of his music is to foster independence and separation/individuation from parents, not to write poetic verse. But the same was so when I was a teen - it seems an ageless universal truism. Wink

So part of what I'm taking from your note is that most/many songs are poetry, whereas not all poems are suited for song. You mention that to be suited for song a poem has to have the sound quality to be sung - but what is that quality? I've written two poems at best that might with a lot of help be suited for song (at least in a contemporary market), but I'm trying to figure out what sets them apart. What did I do differently? Some of it I know is the phrasing. I wouldn't write "So into the woods, I did retreat" if I was thinking lyrics, but in a poem the phrasing might give me the linguistic musical quality and meter I need for the poem to sing on its own (though perhaps a bit off key), unaccompanied by music.

I've spent very little time in the Song Lyrics forum though I'm venturing there more often. I keep wondering though, when someone writes a poem, how do they conclude "this is a song" and put it in that forum instead of finding it more suited for the Emotional Poetry forum, for example.

Songwriting seems to add yet a second layer - the artist's task is to entwine, or envision the marriage of, music with the poem. I can't even begin to imagine trying to blend melody with lyrics - I'm not a musician so I don't have melodies floating through my head. I'm lucky to find a few words. Then of course there are issues of refrains, bridges, verses etc.

So that being said, I've ordered a book on song writing that was recommended to me to get a sense as to the structural distinctions, but I still wonder what the "sound" is that makes a poem songworthy....

Sunny Cool
_________________
All poems posted by Sunny: ©2006 - 2007 Sunny (UN: Sunny at melswebs.com). All rights reserved. Any unauthorized reproduction is strictly prohibited. In other words, if you want to copy it, you need to get Sunny’s permission first.

Post Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:18 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
  Display posts from previous:      
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  


Last Thread | Next Thread  >

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
LifeVita3

 

 



Search For Posters!


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

In Association with Amazon.com
     
Terms & Conditions Privacy Statement Acknowledgements