BACK TO HOME PAGE SITE NAVIGATION CONTACT POETRY FORUM STORY FORUM   Horoscope  Radio  Gallery  FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   PM's   
Log in 
 
General Forum Index -> Articles & Essays

My thoughts
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Ladies Lifestyle and Living Store
  Author    Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny
My thoughts

I was going to post this to lil p’s thread “US Presidential Candidates- Who are you voting for?”
But I think my comments will be a little off the topic so I decided to start a new thread…if you wish to bring yourself up to speed on the general discussion and how this could relate to that then please visit her thread in the general chit chat section and read the replies.

Cuppy…don’t be using the spaghetti monsters name in vane grrrrrrrr Wink

These are just my thoughts and ramblings so Razz

Blame…hmmm…
Lets blame the administration, religion, fundamentalists or another country for our problems. Lets blame anyone or anything but ourselves. By not taking some responsibility and an active roll in how our country (does not matter what country you are from or in) is run then we are all to blame. By not standing up and having our voices heard…we are all to blame. People think, “they were elected by the people to take care of these things and they are smarter than we are.” Bullshit. Elected officials are elected to represent YOU. They are elected to represent the opinions, feelings and desires of the people they were elected to represent. Its does not matter whether you personally voted for them or not. They represent YOU and that is their job. It is your job to make sure they know what you think. “But they have access to more information and facts than I do.” Are you sure about that? Supposed facts can be wrong and you may know as much or more than they do. Not all the information they have is correct…just ask George Bush. No matter it is still YOUR job to make sure they know YOUR opinion. In my own personal opinion if you do not consider it your job to make those who represent you aware of your opinion then the results you get are the results you deserve and you have no right to gripe about it.

Maybe the problem will just go away…
Lets look away from potential problems and maybe they will just go away. People think global warming is caused by pollution while others think it is just a natural cycle of events. Maybe it is caused by pollution and maybe it is a natural cycle. If we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing to find out why it happens or how it happens then we will never know and never be able to do anything about it. If we take an active roll in trying to find out the causes then maybe we could find a way to prevent global warming or the next ice age. In other words…not trying to solve a problem will not make the problem go away.

Religion…
Like it or not religion has always played a roll in politics and it always will play a roll…a major roll. It is not fundamentalist of any particular religion or organization that are the biggest problem. A fundamentalist adheres to strict interpretations of their basic beliefs. In many instances this can, does and has led to violence but the biggest problem, or as some would say, threat is not the fundamentalist but the fanatic. I never knew there was 1.5+ billion fundamentalist Muslims. I always thought it was close to 2 billion so I guess the other half billion are regular muslims…I always thought most Muslims where more open minded. To me and in my own personal opinion…fundamentalism is one step away from fanaticism.

A religion cannot be blamed for any of the problems this world faces. Religions are not to blame…people are. People who abuse and twist the beliefs of their own religion are to blame. Yes those 19 fanatics who were on those planes on September the eleventh are to blame for the deaths of around 3000 people. Yes all of those 19 people were of the Islamic faith and they were fanatics. If anyone wishes to question that or deny it then so be it but it is the truth. Many people want to point the finger at the current administration of the American government and say, “they did it! They ordered those planes to be flown into the World Trade Center! Then they ordered a demolition team to bring those buildings down!” Humph whatever.

Name any religion from A to Z and you can find good and bad. You can take any text from any religion or belief and twist it to further just about any viewpoint. It is not a religion that is bad…it is people who abuse the true teachings of a religion for their own self interests. There is nothing wrong with having deep rooted faith in what one believes but when a person takes that religion and twists it to suit their own purposes and not for what it was intended then have not only abused the religion they have defaced it for all who believe in it and given the outside world a bitter taste of the dark side of that belief.

Action = Reaction
Anything that one person or group of society does to another person or group will affect the opinions of the people being acted upon and cause a reaction. The attacks by the United States on the Taliban in Afghanistan were a direct reaction to what happened on September the eleventh. The attacks on September the eleventh were not the first attacks on the United States or any western country by fanatics. In modern times such attacks are easily traced back to the early nineteen hundreds. The first of such attacks can be taken even farther back and are a direct reaction to Christians of Europe trying to occupy the lands of the Middle East. It is a direct reaction to western culture sticking its nose where it is not wanted and where it does not belong. In other words, “mess with me and I will damn sure mess back”.

99% of all religious and spiritual beliefs teach people to be loving and kind. They teach people to be tolerant of others and to teach others by example, but each and every one of them can be twisted and used by fanatics to promote violence and hatred in order to further their own personal agenda’s. They do not do it because of the religion or to protect their way of life. They do it because they themselves hate and all they want is to teach others to hate.

Look at he Crusades of Christianity and the inquisitions…“believe as we believe or die” humph. Read any religious text and you can easily twist it to your own needs and desires. It is not any particular religion that is bad…it is the people who abuse the religion and the people who try to force those beliefs onto other people.

How are other religions viewed?
Most religions are viewed by people of differing beliefs as sinful, wrong and blasphemous.
Capital punishment exists in many countries. A comparison was made between fundamental Christians and Muslims. The thing that sticks in the minds of most people is the fact that Muslim fanatics have kidnapped innocent people and beheaded them publicly. They have even videotaped beheading specifically to put them out to the public. In the eyes of the world that is not punishment…it is evil. An Iraqi priest is kidnapped in 2006 and his head is cut off…for what? Punishment? Perhaps in the eyes of his kidnappers it was justice at the highest level but not to his family. A fanatic Christian blows up a clinic where abortions are performed killing a pregnant woman. In the eyes of the fanatic Christian nothing wrong was done but that is not the case in the eyes of the world or that woman’s family. When an abortion doctor is killed anti-abortionists are thrilled…even though they spout killing is wrong and to prove it they will kill. Who could forget Daniel Pearl? A reporter who was kidnapped and beheaded…for what? Because some idiot thinks they have the God given right to do it? Did he rape or murder someone? NO. Did he molest a child? NO. Did he do anything that would warrant his death? No he did not. How many women have been stoned to death because they were lesbian? Throughout history that number could not possibly be known. In the past ten years I would hate to fathom how many…how about the past year…the past month…how many in the past week? I do not want to guess but it cannot be denied that is happens. Last year a 17 year old Kurdish girl was stoned to death because she loved a Sunni boy. SHE WAS KILLED BECAUSE SHE LOVED SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS BELIEF. Examples like these could be listed out for every religion and none of them would paint a very good picture for anyone who held a different belief. There have been many wrongful acts committed by people of one religion against people of differing beliefs and even people of the same religious belief and there will continue to be such acts but it is not the religions fault…it is the people who abuse the religion who are the evil motherfuckers that deserve to die.

What I find the most ridiculous is that most religions are very similar and have many things in common. I know there are people who will disagree with that but if you read the Christian bible, the Qur’an, the Veda’s and any other religious text you can find to read then once you have read them with an open mind you will find they are similar in the beliefs and teaching they hold. Yes there are differences and some very vast differences but that does not change the facts.Deb and I travel a lot and we have been to many different countries. Different countries have different laws and if you break the law you should pay the price but when that price is your head you should at least have a day in court.

I will not tell you that there are no people I would not happily kill or see dead because I would be more than happy to see any child molester skinned alive and made to suffer for days on end then slowly watch them die. But not in the name of any religion would I do that…just personal satisfaction.




That is all for now…get out and VOTE!!!

Down with Hillary!!
Up with almost anyone else!!
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.


Last edited by Eiregirl on Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:52 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
lil_princess



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 100
Location: My Head


(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Eire)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


quote:
People who abuse and twist the beliefs of their own religion are to blame.


Bravo.. A very nice post/ reply.. And so true

Arrow lil-p
_________________
Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:30 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
cupcakes



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY


Please forgive me, oh great Meatballish one!! ::trembles::

Just to clarify...i didn't mean there are 1.5+ fundamentalist Muslims. That was supposed to be a rough figure of people around the world who are followers of the Islamic religion (your everyday normal people).


ANyways...I was just thinking yesterday. It makes me so sad, because when you meet face to face with of the individual "soldiers" in the mass army of hate, you might find that you like that person very much.
The people who purposely twist religion, or traditions into tools of hate have a power agenda...but then they enlist so many more people to their way of thought. And these might be good people at heart who are tricked or taught to fear these "OTHERS" that they've never had experience with.

Then there is this "us" vs "them" feeling. In this game of capture the flag, the losing team DIES? It's real life with real people and when it comes down to it...does it matter what country you're from or what religion you are part of? It sometimes scares me when people are "overly patriotic," because then they might stop seeing the members of the other team as real people who bleed when you break them, and cry when you hate them. They are people with problems of their own, even if you think their sole purpose of existence is in relation to you...like they only exist to steal our wealth and power.

(There is also a healthy "patriotism"...pride in the good things about your country and group of people you identify with. which i was trying to get at when I said Obama should not have to deny his Muslim ancentry)

Ummm back from my tangent... We are taught our prejudices. And I think often it's not an intellectual matter, but a problem of basic, primal fear. We'd all like to think we're NOT racists, because we try our best to be good honest people. It's not as simple as saying...hmmm today I think I'll open my mind and heart and love my "insert other group" brothers and sisters. Fear is learned over time by the small dirty things we hear and say...

like so and so smells so bad because her people don't shave their armpits. Did you guess? That was my OWN prejudice of lesbians when I was a bratty 10 yr old. And how would I have known? I'd never inspected a lesbian's underarm at that time. I heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend who heard it from her mother who wasn't a lesbian?

OK...how that I have totally gone off topic.

I don't think I'd be able to watch another human suffer in the extreme no matter what he/she did.
But I have seen the slaughter of a fish, live...and I saw that boy kill the chickens on Kid Nation. Then those kids let it run around without a head and the camera along with western audiences watched it with voyeuristic pleasure and horror! Goes to show how humane our own society is. Any way of slaughtering an animal for meat is not going to be laboratory clean and pleasant. Halal meat is not more gruesome than those neat packages at the supermarket.


One more point of interest: I noticed that you wrote a KURDISH girl and a SUNNI boy.
What is interesting about this is that KURDISH is a political name for a race, whereas SUNNI is a religious sect.
(It's like saying a black girl was killed for loving a protestant boy)

Most Kurds are Sunnis, unless they are Kurds of Iran who might be Shiite.

This just goes to show how race and religion are so easily intertangled.



cuppy

("other"-- in the manner of modern analytical/literary theory; I believe it was coined by Edward Said in Orientalism )

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:46 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by cupcakes:
One more point of interest: I noticed that you wrote a KURDISH girl and a SUNNI boy.
What is interesting about this is that KURDISH is a political name for a race, whereas SUNNI is a religious sect.
(It's like saying a black girl was killed for loving a protestant boy)

Most Kurds are Sunnis, unless they are Kurds of Iran who might be Shiite.

This just goes to show how race and religion are so easily intertangled.


You are forgiven...just don't let it happen again Razz

Yes I did write a Kurdish girl and a Sunni boy but I do not believe I ever said Kurdish was her religion however I did specify that her and the boy were of different religious beliefs.

The girls name WAS Du’a Khalil Aswad and her religious belief was Yazidi. She was a Kurd.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:48 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa


eire.... Rolling Eyes ............HUH?
_________________
.
.

light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:21 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by realwoman:
eire.... Rolling Eyes ............HUH?



Real...i love ye darling but...

So far 2 out of 3 people know what the hell I am talking about so if you would please be a little more specific.

Hugs,
Eiregirl
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:51 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa


quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
...
The girls name WAS Du’a Khalil Aswad and her religious belief was Yazidi. She was a Kurd....



Eire, you are forgiven... just dont let it happen again Razz

Let me try to explain... If the girl was Yazidi, and the boy Sunni, what does the fact that she was Kurdish have to do with anything? What was HIS race? Also Kurdish? Maybe something else? Does it matter? Rhetorical questions, I know, dont worry about them...

BUT... This is maybe the reason why there is so much misunderstanding... BECAUSE we get mixed up with politics and religion, saying things like: "...that one is a white protestant, that one is a Kurdish Sunni..." , and WHY? To label? To identify with or against? To determine if one should show sympathy to one side or not? And when it does not fit the 'stereotype label' anymore, or if we cannot 'label' in the way we want to, all becomes very confusing, to everyone....

As people ourselves who do not like the labels that others assign to us, let us try and set the example by not labeling those who are not like us, or at least, not mix their labels up...

Hugs back

~real
_________________
.
.

light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:07 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by realwoman:
quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
...
The girls name WAS Du’a Khalil Aswad and her religious belief was Yazidi. She was a Kurd....



Eire, you are forgiven... just dont let it happen again Razz

Let me try to explain... If the girl was Yazidi, and the boy Sunni, what does the fact that she was Kurdish have to do with anything? What was HIS race? Also Kurdish? Maybe something else? Does it matter? Rhetorical questions, I know, dont worry about them...

BUT... This is maybe the reason why there is so much misunderstanding... BECAUSE we get mixed up with politics and religion, saying things like: "...that one is a white protestant, that one is a Kurdish Sunni..." , and WHY? To label? To identify with or against? To determine if one should show sympathy to one side or not? And when it does not fit the 'stereotype label' anymore, or if we cannot 'label' in the way we want to, all becomes very confusing, to everyone....

As people ourselves who do not like the labels that others assign to us, let us try and set the example by not labeling those who are not like us, or at least, not mix their labels up...

Hugs back

~real


Hugs real real tight... Razz thank you for forgiving me...but when I want to make a point it will happen again Wink

I think you understand my point but just in case you do not...

If I may be bold and a little blunt.

As I told Cuppy. I may not have specified her religion but that should not matter because I did specify that her and the boy were of different religions. If my saying that she was Kurdish was confussing then apparently some people do not pay attention in geography class or watch the news about Iraq. The same can be said if people do not know that Sunni is an Islamic sect. Besides I would place a wager that no more than 2 or 3 people on this entire site would know what Yazidi is.

The entire point being...

Why should it blanking matter if she was a Kurd, Russian, German or Aborigine? Why the hell should it matter if she was Catholic, Jewish, Hindu or anything else? Why should it matter? She was a 17 year old helpless girl. She was killed in what is called and honour killing!! What kind of honor is there in killing a helpless girl? The only reason she was fu...blanking killed was because she was DIFFERENT.

In my original post I said, "How many women have been stoned to death because they were lesbian? Throughout history that number could not possibly be known. In the past ten years I would hate to fathom how many…how about the past year…the past month…how many in the past week? I do not want to guess but it cannot be denied that is happens." Many people think that loving someone of the same sex is worse than loving someone of a different religion. I know of a few couples that were able to escape in the past year from various countries and tragically there are many that do not...they end up like that girl.

If they will do that to a helpless 17 year old girl...what do you think they would do to you and me?

Hugs you tight
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:51 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Aloha Ladies,

Just want to jump into these topics to say a little something.

I was here in South Africa for several months before I noticed that the newspapers do not ever mention race or religion, unless the article is a newswire reprint. It took me a long time to notice it, perhaps because where I am from...it's a given perspective...the black assailant, the Asian store owner, the Catholic pedophile. It is insidious-the little creeping of our national bias that in turn creeps in to feed our own prejudice.

The other day we passed a beggar on the street corner. In this country it isn't surprising with poverty levels where they are at. The beggar wore a sign regarding his pitiful live and he was white. I wondered aloud about my own inner prejudice and racism because I had such a strong negative reaction to this man.

As cuppy hinted above, we have to own our own personal prejudices. We are so appalled by the racist label we never apply it to ourselves. The racists are the nuts on the fringe...the burners of crosses, the ones who drag a black man until his limbs fall off, the ones who bomb churches. It is true, they are indeed racist. But some sort of understanding of the broader aspects of racism and how it is prevalent in those things we take for granted, like reading the paper or the words we choose.

~Hawn
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:21 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa


quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
...
In my original post I said, "How many women have been stoned to death because they were lesbian?
.... I do not want to guess but it cannot be denied that is happens."
.... I know of a few couples that were able to escape in the past year from various countries and tragically there are many that do not...they end up like that girl.

If they will do that to a helpless 17 year old girl...what do you think they would do to you and me?

...


Eire, I dont think you understood what I was trying to say. Maybe contemplate these few questions:
1. When you are saying we cannot deny that (this) happens, would you include the 22 yo Mathew Sheppard, who was beaten and hung from a fence in Wyoming in 1998 because he was gay, and the murder of Rebecca Wight in 1998 on the Appalachian Trial, that of Roxanne Ellis and Michelle Adbil in Oregon in 1995, and that of Gwen Araujo in 2002?
2. Why are you only referring to the 'stoning' of lesbians, and not the other types of violence used against the LBGT community?
3. Who are the "they" that you are referring to here?

As Hawn said, it is not easy to recognise our internalised prejudices. What I am saying, is that we need to stop thinking in terms of labels, stop thinking in terms of 'us' against 'them'...

This does not mean that we cannot distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. All it means is that we should use the same unbiased value system when we determine right and wrong, and not use a different value system for people who are not like us.

Hugs

~real
_________________
.
.

light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:40 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by realwoman:
Eire, I dont think you understood what I was trying to say. Maybe contemplate these few questions:
1. When you are saying we cannot deny that (this) happens, would you include the 22 yo Mathew Sheppard, who was beaten and hung from a fence in Wyoming in 1998 because he was gay, and the murder of Rebecca Wight in 1998 on the Appalachian Trial, that of Roxanne Ellis and Michelle Adbil in Oregon in 1995, and that of Gwen Araujo in 2002?
2. Why are you only referring to the 'stoning' of lesbians, and not the other types of violence used against the LBGT community?
3. Who are the "they" that you are referring to here?

As Hawn said, it is not easy to recognise our internalised prejudices. What I am saying, is that we need to stop thinking in terms of labels, stop thinking in terms of 'us' against 'them'...

This does not mean that we cannot distinguish between what is right and what is wrong. All it means is that we should use the same unbiased value system when we determine right and wrong, and not use a different value system for people who are not like us.

Hugs

~real


Real…I do know what you are trying to say but…well read on and if what you read does not give some clarity I will try again. Although the title of this post is “My thoughts” the main subject of the post is violence because of religion.

I am sorry but this is the way it appears to me...I may be wrong and if I am correct me.

Cuppy made a reply about my using the term Kurdish to refer to the young woman instead of using her religion.
I replied to her on that subject and in the context of that subject.
You made a reply to that as though confused.
I replied to you wanting more specifics as to what you were confused about.
You replied with more specifics on the subject of that girl.
Sticking with the context of that subject is what my reply did.

The answer to your first question is no and here is why…

As I go back and read my original post I believe I mentioned the killing of a pregnant woman and the killing of an abortion doctor. At the end of that part of my original post I stated:
“Examples like these could be listed out for every religion and none of them would paint a very good picture for anyone who held a different belief. There have been many wrongful acts committed by people of one religion against people of differing beliefs and even people of the same religious belief and there will continue to be such acts but it is not the religions fault…it is the people who abuse the religion who are the evil motherfuckers that deserve to die.”

The main subject in my reply to cuppy and to you is violence against other people because of their religious beliefs. That girl was killed not because she was a lesbian (she was not) but because her religious belief was different than the boys.

Mathew Sheppard was not killed because of his religion but simply because he was gay. The people that killed him did not kill him in the name of any religion but simply because they did not like him because he was gay. Henderson and McKinney posed as gay men to lure him in and then killed him. There was never any mention of religion as a defense for what they did.

It is the same in the other cases you mentioned.

Rebecca Wight was killed because the man (Carr) could not stand seeing two women having sex.

There was nothing ever mentioned about Roxanne Ellis and Michelle Abdill being killed because of religion…when the man finally admitted why he had killed them it was because they were lesbian.

These are without a doubt horrific events and very tragic but because their was not violence because of religion they do not relate to what I am trying to discuss.

The answer to your second question is…

Why mention the stoning of lesbians…one reason is…why not? Another reason is because I am sticking with the context of the subject at hand…violence because of religion. The punishment of stoning has been performed by many countries and cultures historically and predominately by Christians, Muslims and Jews. It is still performed in many countries and that punishment has been and still is carried out. That is why I referred to the stoning of lesbians in my reply. I was sticking to the context of the subject at hand.

The answer to your third question is…

The “they” is anyone you want it to be. Anyone who hates someone else because they are different and would gladly kill them because of it. It could be me because I hate child molesters to the point I would willingly skin them alive and watch them die. Why does “they” have to be anyone specific especially when it is clear that “they” is anyone who would kill because they think another is worthless?

Are you saying that I am showing and internalized prejudice in my reply to you because I stuck with the context of the subject cuppy, you and myself were talking about?

As I have previously mentioned somewhere on these boards…at least I think it was here…might have been somewhere else…anyway…people are the same the world over. We all have hopes and dreams. We may not all look at everything from the same perspective but most of the time we see the same thing we just view it differently. We live on a world of people who look different, talk different and believe different things but ultimately most of us just want to live our lives the way we want and without interference from others who want us to be like them instead of who we are. There are a few who set fires under the pot just to watch it boil over and they have their own personal agenda to fulfill. Perhaps they think everyone should be like them and think like them and believe like them. If anyone else if different in anyway they think it is their right to rid the world of them. (Yes I used “they” a lot in that statement and you can insert whatever you want in place of “they”.) (Just a little sarcasm). Wink

Yes that girl was killed because her religion was different than the boys. Has that happened in other cultures and other parts of the world…most likely it has. I know of people who loved each other but their parents did not want them to marry because one was Catholic and the other was Jewish…unless one or the other was willing to convert but then what do you suppose the other family would think?

There are people who would kill you just to get your shoes or because you looked at them the wrong way at the wrong time. There is no good reason for senseless killing. Is there really any good reason for one human being to kill another? It is very hard for me to say yes because I abhor killing but my answer is yes. Does that make me evil because I think there are times when it is necessary to kill? Does it make me appear evil because of the way I feel about child molesters or anyone who would abuse a child? To some people it would. That has nothing to do with religion…it is just the way I feel about them…“them” being child molesters and people who abuse children. (I just had to insert a little more sarcasm just to sarcastically clarify that.) Twisted Evil





The main subject here is religion and violence even though other things were mentioned in the original post. I made the first post and put forth some of my thoughts. No I did not include every religion or every violent act committed because of religion. The topic stemmed from a discussion on another thread. There were and are many avenues open to explore along this road and I only opened a few of them to start with. I would love for other people to add their own personal perspective to this discussion. I could have easily mentioned personal experiences where I have witnessed acts of violence because of differing religious beliefs but I chose not to for personal reasons.

Real…I think you know me well enough to know that I try to stick to the subject at hand as best as I can without being lead to far astray. I know it does not often happen that I am able to stick to the subject but I try. Rolling Eyes

I did not mention the vast amount of violence that is committed because of religion everyday in countries around the world for two main reasons.
1 because I would still be typing and probably would not be finished for years
2 because the main subject as I see it (I started the thread so I should know) was violence because of religion. That girl, it is a fact, was killed because of her religion being different.
A third reason is…gotta give someone a reason to reply.

Now I await your response in which you will ask me why I did not mention other acts of violence because of other religious beliefs instead of choosing one that happens to be related to the Muslim religion. (I just wanted to be sarcastic again) Wink

Ohh…my answer will be…I did but other people have kept me on this particular one. (Sorry…I just could not pass up one last act of sarcasm) Laughing

I hope that provides understanding.

Hugs you tight
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:01 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  Reply with quote  
lil_princess



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 100
Location: My Head


quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:

Now I await your response in which you will ask me why I did not mention other acts of violence because of other religious beliefs instead of choosing one that happens to be related to the Muslim religion. (I just wanted to be sarcastic again) Wink


LOL Eire Laughing
Good one

Arrow lil-p

PS, I mean no offense RealWoman Arrow
_________________
Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way

Post Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:13 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa
Re: My thoughts

quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
I was going to post this to lil p’s thread “US Presidential Candidates- Who are you voting for?”
But I think my comments will be a little off the topic so I decided to start a new thread…if you wish to bring yourself up to speed on the general discussion and how this could relate to that then please visit her thread in the general chit chat section and read the replies.
...
Blame…hmmm…
Lets blame the administration, religion, fundamentalists or another country for our problems. Lets blame anyone or anything but ourselves. By not taking some responsibility and an active roll in how our country (does not matter what country you are from or in) is run then we are all to blame.
....
Lets look away from potential problems and maybe they will just go away. People think global warming is caused by pollution while others think it is just a natural cycle of events. Maybe it is caused by pollution and maybe it is a natural cycle.
....
Like it or not religion has always played a roll in politics and it always will play a roll…a major roll. It is not fundamentalist of any particular religion or organization that are the biggest problem. A fundamentalist adheres to strict interpretations of their basic beliefs. In many instances this can, does and has led to violence
.....
A religion cannot be blamed for any of the problems this world faces. Religions are not to blame…people are.
...
99% of all religious and spiritual beliefs teach people to be loving and kind. They teach people to be tolerant of others and to teach others by example, but each and every one of them can be twisted and used by fanatics to promote violence and hatred in order to further their own personal agenda’s. They do not do it because of the religion or to protect their way of life. They do it because they themselves hate and all they want is to teach others to hate.
...
There have been many wrongful acts committed by people of one religion against people of differing beliefs and even people of the same religious belief and there will continue to be such acts but it is not the religions fault…it is the people who abuse the religion who are the evil motherfuckers that deserve to die.

That is all for now…get out and VOTE!!!
...


quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
Although the title of this post is “My thoughts” the main subject of the post is violence because of religion.



Eire, it still seems that you are not understanding what I am trying to say. Please allow me to try one last time:

As I read it, the main point of your original post is NOT violence because of religion... it is about politics, and accepting responsibility for oneself, and you used a couple of examples: global warming, religion, etc, to make the point very eloquently that people should stop blaming other things, and start looking inward, inside themselves, for the reasons why there is dissatisfaction and violence, etc.

Hence why, your reply to cuppy confused me, because you seemed to be blaming religion for the death of the girl, not people, and in addition to that, you confused political affiliation with religion, and placed emphasis on the girls race. I replied, in tune with your original post, to say that giving people labels is part of the reason why there is misunderstanding, because labels makes it easier to 'group' people, and to start hating a group of people, because their race or religion has a different label than yours...

In your response, you defended why you used the girls race as a label, and continued by saying that she was killed because she had a 'different' label as the people who killed her. You continued saying that 'these people' (the ones who killed this girl) will also kill lesbians by stoning.

Hence, I replied, asking you to do what you said that everyone should do in your original post, namely look inward, at why the need for grouping people and labeling them, illustrating my point by using examples that it is not only 'these people' that are violent against the LBGT community, and that we cannot say that the people killed in the USA because of their sexual orientation was not killed because of the religion of their assailants... what confirms this is the DEFENSE used by the killers of Mathew Sheppard AND Rebecca AND Roxane AND Michelle - they were GAY, and the killers thought they had therefore a RIGHT to kill them... What made them think this way? What made them think that that would be a possible successful defense in a western country? Would it perhaps be the fact that the religion in this western country sees being gay as an aberration against their god too? Or is it just because they tried to 'blame' the killing of these people on the general belief, shared by most religions, that being gay is 'unacceptable'?

Your response to my questions was that you are sticking to the original topic, and that this is about 'violence because of religion'. This response both illustrates the point I was making, and your original point, namely that it is easy to say ' lets not blame religion, lets look inside ourselves and accept responsibility for our actions , but it is not so easy to practice what we preach... It is much easier to fall back to labels, and assign blame to 'some religions', because of our inner prejudices, as Hawn and cuppy said before, in response to your original post.

As you can see, I am sticking to the topic here, and agreeing with your original statement, by saying we should stop looking for blame in whatever religion or label, and start looking inside ourselves for the reasons why we judge and blame

I hope that this provides understanding.

Hugs

~real

PS: As you can see, sarcasm has no effect on me Razz
_________________
.
.

light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:14 am 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
cupcakes



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY
this is why i love (sarcastic) political discussions

Ladies, ladies, ladies...
::kisses Eire, Real, Hawn, Lilp, (and myself) on the cheeks::

I sense some tension here. I think we need to have a workshop on giving and receiving positive criticisms. I am SOOOO stepping out of line here, someone is gonna kick my ass, but I don't care (yet). And also...Eire, i hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me for not sticking to your topic.

It's so easy to take a "criticism" personally.
When we write in this kind of thread, we offer up our thoughts to be poked and prodded. That's what we SHOULD want and should expect. How boring, pointless and vane it would be if our peers just said..."yes yes i agree with everything you said!" I guess it'd make us feel happy, but it won't help us improve and polish our own thoughts.
And we are ALL guilty of this. It's normal to feel defensive of what we say.
When I write something that I feel strongly about, (or pretty much anything I spend time and energy writing) it's like my baby. This is my creation, my written work, my baby. And no one wants to be told, "you have an ugly baby."



SO, as the self imposed queen of Antarctica (damn I just love myself to bits, it's shameful), I would like to decree these new laws (and if you don't abide by my laws I shall chop off your head or banish you from my ice-country for five whole minutes depending on my mood):

1) From now on, every post must state at least one positive thing about the post they are criticizing...preferably in the beginning. This applies even if you are feeling EXTREMELY negative.

2) We shall all acknowledge that we pitifully ignorant beings in relation to the vast sum of all knowledge in the universe. We are fallible; no matter how many years of education or how many years of life we have endured, there is always something we could learn or could have worded better.

3) We shall do our best to play the dumb when others have failed at rule 1 and 2, we shall do our best to not ASSUME that the "attacker" meant to attack at all. Perhaps they just weren't aware of the negative way in which their words could be taken. This is the part where we step out of our egos for a moment and decide whether the criticism is useful, has reasonable point for us to consider, or if it's not helpful: disregard.


SO...who dares to break my royal decree? (and tell me my baby is ugly)
Brings out the guillotine made of marshmallow fluff.

Also this post is so pompous...anyone feel like cutting me down (nicely), please do. I am so disgusted with myself.


Rolling Eyes cUppy on her high horse.

Post Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:22 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Kisses the top of the Queen of Antartica's head...

1. Very funny post missy.

Does that count as a positive thing at the beginning? Although I am not feeling all that critical or negative.

2. Indeed people are all fallible, even the FSM is fallible 'cause her noodly appendages sometimes dry up. I never learned about the Flying Spaghetti Monster in school which goes to show how woefully inadequate my endured learning turned out to be.

3. OK, this is the part where I have to tell you that your baby is ugly. I think that you've been hanging around penguins too long. Penguins are so very very sensitive about their babies. There is just so much difference that those poor birds can take. Cold vs colder...day vs night...solid ice vs ice water. The penguins are not really good at seeing all the different types of birds that the world holds. If the poor penguin sees another creature...it obviously knows that the other creature wants to eat it...sea lions, sea leopards, and even sharks! They swim so very fast because well, because fish swim fast and they eat fish. And those nasty predators swim fast too...swim fast or be eaten! That is the unofficial penguin motto.

My point here having gone the long way around Antarctica is that we are all big peoples here. This isn't any the first time for any one of us in the sea of debate. We are all well aware that attacks while maybe perceived as such initially, aren't really attacks at all...just maybe heated, pointed discussion. There shouldn't really be hard feelings. That shouldn't really be how it works 'cause when that happens...learning stops.

And I take it back that your baby is ugly...'cause that's my camp grandbaby you are talking about.

~Miki
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:17 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message  Reply with quote  
  Display posts from previous:      
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2  Next

Last Thread | Next Thread  >

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 


Search For Posters!


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

In Association with Amazon.com
     
Terms & Conditions Privacy Statement Acknowledgements