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Talk to Ex-gays? *Important Update*
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two things



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 1
Talk to Ex-gays? *Important Update*

This should be my only post here.... You all have to read some of this !

Talk to her.... I can't !

~link removed

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:19 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Aloha ((((two things)))))

Welcome to Mels! I hope that this isn't your only post here, you bring up an important topic.

Yes, I find this trend, the "ex-gay" movement to be quite disturbing on several levels.

First of all, but not foremost, is the "racket" that has sprung up around this issue. Seems like they say "pay me thousands and I will cure you." This reminds me of the early days of the Catholic church where you could buy forgiveness or a place in heaven. If gay were a disease I would have called in sick years ago. What I hear them saying is "pay me thousands of dollars and I will mind-fuck you."

That gets to my major problem with this movement. If someone wants to follow Jesus, that's fine with me. But Jesus said we are all sinners, I don't understand the fundamental Christians obsession with gays, especially gay males. It appears that lesbians aren't mentioned in the Bible. Jesus died for all of us, or nobody at all.

I don't think it's possible to cure someone of their sexual orientation. My ex's parents sent her to a psychiatrist to fix her when they discovered her sexuality. Guess what? It didn't work. I don't think that it really can. All this movement does is to force denial by inspiring guilt. "Hurry, hurry back into the closet for you, there's plenty of room in the guilt ridden closet with some shameful, LOUD homophobic GOP senators and some abominable clergy."

But the gay people I know, well, they don't look anything like those hypocrites. They don't. Most of them are loving human beings. Some of them are struggling to come to terms with themselves, in and out of the closet.

I don't know what I can do to change this woman's mind. I don't have any problem with people who discover things about themselves and change. When it's phony, well, they have to live with that not me, so I can't judge them.

Here are two articles that I've read recently about ex-gay ministries. Christian 'Ex-Gays' Brainwash Thousands and How an 'Ex-Gay' Minister Saw the Light . You'll see by the ferocity of the comments how emotional this topic is.

One last note, ladies, if you do go to this women's blog, I implore you to please be respectful. There is nothing wrong with changing one's mind, but there is something wrong with denying who you are.

~Hawaiian.
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:05 am 
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smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


Wow. I'm going to pray that my friend Jay finds this. Jay is in his thirties, never married, wears a robe in the daytime, and hangs out with twelve other dudes all the time, talking about loving his fellow man. I'm afraid he's going to get hurt.

Arrow

Cookie

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:46 am 
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Blue_bandana



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 49


I hope she responds to comments. We'll see.

Is it just me, or does her first paragraph (if the words were switched just a tiny bit) sound like an argument the LGBT would make? How the Christian Right and other like-minded groups "demand acceptance of themselves, their lifestyle, and their beliefs regardless of what others may believe." "...political activist and lobbyist pushing this acceptance upon the people of America by attaching legal acceptance to different bills going through the House and the Senate." Seems a bit ironic. I didn't know both sides were fighting for the same thing. Confused

Amazing how two people can see the same issue and yet have completely different views on it. Amazing and sad.

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:58 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Yes Cookums, pray for Jay. He is getting hurt in this. Crying or Very sad

Some quotes for Jay:

Jesus Christ was an extremist for love, truth and goodness. ~Martin Luther King Jr.

No man can follow Christ and go astray. ~William H.P. Faunce

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. ~Mahatma Gandhi
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:06 am 
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realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa


This is the comment i left on her blog:

quote:
Dear Charlene

Firstly, let me introduce myself. I am not American, but my girlfriend is, and I consider myself to be saved by Jesus. I grew up in a very conservative and deeply Calvinistic society, and it took me almost 40 years to make peace with myself, with who God created me as, and with who I truly am as a result of that.

I have read the Bible from cover to cover, and have won many Bible knowledge contests. Knowing whats in the Bible, and understanding what it really means, is however two different things. I tried to live the straight life for almost 40 years, but was never really happy. One day, i read Jesus words, where he said (my loose quote) ' The most important law of all is this: "Love God above everything else, and love your neighbour as you LOVE YOURSELF."

WOW, what amazing words...i realised for the first time what those words really mean, and that i will never be able to love God, if I do not love myself as he created me. I accepted who I was, and came out to myself and my parents as gay. This was the end of my struggle... this brought me closer to Jesus, and made me realise that it will be a sin if i do not live my life as He intended me to life it... it also brought happiness to my life, and a wonderful woman to share that life with...

As an active member of the LBGT community (an administrator of a large lesbian website), I can honesty say that I have never seen the LBGT community taking issue with ex-gays... it seems to be the other way around, and several testimonies confirm that ex-gays are used by political powermongers to aid their objectives. Here is one, as example: http://www.alternet.org/story/71460/

I can just hope that you, indeed, love yourself the way God has made you, and that you are not sinning by acting against his will. I must agree with shallow mind - IF it is possible to turn "ungay" fine, live a happy straight life, I have no problems with that. If it is not possible, and if you cannot change back because you have been all over the media and television, my deepest sympathy to you, and know, I will pray for you...

Lastly, a question, maybe a rhetorical one: In my country, human rights include the freedom of choice with regard to religion, sexual orientation, and a range of other 'basic human rights'... Why, in the 'most civilised country in the world', the USA, are those basic human rights not afforded to everyone?

I hope you will find peace and happiness

Love in Christ

~realwoman




It is not up on the site yet, 'subject to approval'... one can but try...

~real

PS - cookums, u are brilliant, and I agree 100% ...
_________________
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light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:15 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


(((((((Blue_bandana)))))))

No I don't think that it's you. The moral arguments against gays are seething with irony and well, just plain ol' hate. It really is a shame that "liberals" shy away from gay issues, accepting the "Moral Right's" framing of the conversation.

Where are our leaders framing this as a love issue, a civil rights issue? Wouldn't that expose the hatred and homophobia? I don't understand how the loudest and most vile homophobes aren't called on this issue with the very Bible they thump.

~Hawn
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:20 am 
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cupcakes



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY


I enjoyed reading the charlene's blog. It was pretty interesting to me.

I don't think I have any beef with people being Ex-gay as long as they don't want me to be an Ex-gay too. I think everyone should have the right to present themselves as they wish. If someone wants to identify as an "Ex-gay" just add that flavour to my rainbow.

I identify as a lesbian, because I see myself as a member of a loose-network "lesbian society" composed of any woman who shares in the believe that she is a woman who loves women.

If you are a woman who loved women but no longer loves woman...sure you can call yourself an ex-gay...kind of like an ex-cop, or ex-kindergarten teacher. How about retired-gay? "I'm a retired-gay."
I think I'd just call myself straight and not make a huge fuss about it.
Not to be disrespectful of decision to call yourself "Ex-gay"...well, yea I guess I am being disrespectful. Sorry. But, why is your life wrapped up in the past...and in someone else's (a gay person's) present?

I wouldn't call myself an Ex-straight because that would be disrespectful to my wonderful straight friends who are currently living their straight life without bothering me.
Imagine if I went around telling straight people...I'm an EX-straight. Accept me!

"It's like "straight," but mark it with a big X. X for no! X for SIN! X for you're going to burn in hell, you poor stupid straight person who hasn't seen the light as I have, because I am above you, and I know more than you!"

No way! No person who believes "love your neighbour" would blatantly rub in someone else's face how terrible they think we are.

As a person who knows what it feels like to be gay, to truly believe that "I am born this way, I am gay" how could you use a term so demeaning to those who identify as gay and then get upset when we don't accept it with open arms?

Well, I haven't mentioned anything about jesus' role in this "ex-gay" business because I honestly think he has better things to think about than our petty squabbling and name calling.

I say...if a gay person wants to become straight...and they ask you for help of THEIR OWN FREE WILL, not their mother's or their father's or their friends'...then go for it...exorcise that gayness out of them. So they can find their version of peace.
Sure being gay can be a hard life for some people and if life for them can be better as a straight person, I'm cool with that.
Just pick a different label for yourself! Must you be "ex-gay?" Ex-cuppy? (cuppy is me) Can't you be slunge-minkey? or McStraight? Or any other non-conflicting name you can come up with?

Is it possible for a gay person to become un-gay? Sure! Why the hell not? It's just a label. It's an abstract word that only means something in a societal context. Step out of that society and congratulations you are no longer called a gay. You are simply yourself. ANd those sinful thoughts and feelings of attraction don't matter if you don't want them to matter.

I am born. I change every day. But everyday I find I wake up and I am still "me," an insignificant mass of cells made up of stardust, different from you. (BTW this brings on a whole tangent of existential, Mind/Body thoughts) Anyways...

It's all about the love, darlings...we're the love generation!
I wish no harm to ex-gays and welcome them into my little section of the rainbow as long as they don't try impress their beliefs on me. (And don't mind my new identity of "ex-straight")

Feel free to pray for me, my sins, and the detour my soul decided to take on the road to nowhere.

Believe whatever you believe! And don't forget--we're the Love Generation! (bob sinclar song)

Love,
your friendly neighbourhood Ex-straight. (Just Kidding)
cuppy

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:44 am 
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Cavewoman



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby


Ex-straight Laughing
good one cuppy!
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" The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews

Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:18 pm 
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lil_princess



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 100
Location: My Head


oh cups
why do i heart you so much?
you speak my mind.
Arrow
lil p
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Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way

Post Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:42 am 
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SKYY



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 57
Location: western, ma. usa


cups that was awesome.... i dont know whats funnier....that rant, or when i meet a self-proclaimed 'ex-gay' in real life...i just cant stop laughing at them!
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Scars are Souvenirs you never lose. But you still have to pay for them.
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Damn the man!! Save the Empire!!!

Post Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:21 am 
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Blue_bandana



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 49


((((Hawaiian)))) - thank you for the hug and the comment. Though the subject is not at all pleasing. I do agree with you and wonder the same. Things seem so far off, it's enough to drain someone of optimism.

Just a personal suggestion, but to anyone who reads her comments or looks around her site, I would suggest avoiding the videos she has of her interviews (the ones she comments about). I watched half of the first,"Charlene's Story," and it honestly turned my stomach. Not sure about the rest, but that was enough for me. Just my two cents on the subject.

~Blue

Post Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:45 pm 
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SASSY SOUL



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 52


Sorry but this type of thing seriously messed me up in my late teens. My first love was a 'ex gay' so the church told her. We were separated, and then I was ostracized. The church surrounded her and stopped me having any contact with her and that took a long time to get over and I don't believe she was truly converted. The irony of this was that I found a way to contact her by using a pet name that we used to use. She recognized it straight away and called me We spoke and it was like time had never passed, 6 years had. You know the feeling when you have a life long friend and it dosen't matter how infrequently you see them as you just pick up from where you left off.


These sorts of people put things on You tube under labels such as KDLang and use her music with a slide show to convert people to the ex-lesbian/gay movement.

Just leave people alone. I recall that 'god' gave pople free choice and they lived with their decisions. I don't recall anywhere in the bible saying berate those who take the road they does not agree with.

I'm not bitter - it just irritates me that people can not be allowed to make their own decision or live their life without others in our communities questioning their life.

Post Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:34 pm 
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smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


I would only say...that gays and Lesbians suffer at the hands of the "godly" more than any other group. I have never had a yokel in a pick up truck stop and bother me. But the religious have many times, and feel they are being kind and good in doing so. I have heard so many times, from my own family members, that I am ill or deluded for loving as I choose to. And they just love to invoke the bible and god. Further, I can't get married in their church. So, the whole subject of "christianity" is charged for me, and not in a good way.

So, while I admire Sassy's restraint and compassion, I think that the emotion is rooted in a feeling of ultimate betrayal. The democrat suddenly loves Bush. The Red Sox fan shows up in a NY Yankees cap.

Also, people who become "ex-gays" don't express it in terms of a simple choice. (personally I don't believe it IS a choice, but let's just say that it is, here) They tend to couch it in terms as a recovery from sin and wickedness, a return to god and a rejection of sick perversion. If someone offers me a piece of apple pie and I say, oh no, apple pie is an insturment of evil, and those who eat it are satan's pawns, they will resent me or consider me nuts.

Arrow

Cookie

Post Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:54 pm 
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SASSY SOUL



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 52


quote:
Originally posted by smart_cookie:
I would only say...that gays and Lesbians suffer at the hands of the "godly" more than any other group. I have never had a yokel in a pick up truck stop and bother me. But the religious have many times, and feel they are being kind and good in doing so. I have heard so many times, from my own family members, that I am ill or deluded for loving as I choose to. And they just love to invoke the bible and god. Further, I can't get married in their church. So, the whole subject of "christianity" is charged for me, and not in a good way.

So, while I admire Sassy's restraint and compassion, I think that the emotion is rooted in a feeling of ultimate betrayal. The democrat suddenly loves Bush. The Red Sox fan shows up in a NY Yankees cap.

Also, people who become "ex-gays" don't express it in terms of a simple choice. (personally I don't believe it IS a choice, but let's just say that it is, here) They tend to couch it in terms as a recovery from sin and wickedness, a return to god and a rejection of sick perversion. If someone offers me a piece of apple pie and I say, oh no, apple pie is an insturment of evil, and those who eat it are satan's pawns, they will resent me or consider me nuts.

Arrow

Cookie


Spot on - Alice - for an institution that was designed for good it has done a heck of a lot of bad acts to many. Religion, created by man/person has interpreted the scriptures along the way - perhaps to suit the political climate of the time and unfortunately, some of it stuck and hasn't been pushed through with the current religions awakenings or reforms. Interesting how the many churches/religions have recognized the errors of their ways and amended their ways yet have let the issue of homosexuality stay.

It annoys me buy heho - do what you want just don't mess with peoples heads and lives. The irony of the whole thing is about the free choice that was apparently given. They allow for free choice apart from sexuality. Interesting. Selective policies me think..

Post Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:04 am 
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