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Life…five questions…thousands of answers
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny
Life…five questions…thousands of answers

How did it all begin? Where did it start? Why did it happen? What is the purpose of life? What happens when we die?

Those are 5 out of literally thousands of questions that could be asked related to life, how it began, why we are here and so on. There are literally thousands of different views on how the earth and the universe were created…how it all came into existence. Many of them are very similar and many very different but they are all believed beyond doubt by those who follow those various beliefs whether that belief is an atheist point of view or in evolution, total chance or some God beyond our realm of perception.

The most honest answer to those questions would be to say…I don’t know…but for those who have faith in what they believe, whether that is in evolution, creationism (pick your belief) or any form of belief in how life and our universe began then “I don’t know” is not the answer and it cannot be the answer. It could be a part of the answer if used by saying, “I don’t know but this is what I think…”.

The Big Bang and other similar theories try to explain how it all began…but they fail to pin it all down into a nice neat little package. I will admit they are doing a bang up job trying to find all the answers but all they have are theories and assumptions that are continually being revised as new information and data comes in and that is how theories work. There is nothing wrong with that and I enjoy reading about them and studying them. The only problem I have is when a teacher in a classroom points a finger at me and tries to tell me it is fact and then I sit there and argue my point that it is not fact and end up getting a B for the class instead of an A. Stupid teacher…I wonder how many minds he warped.

Did life begin here on this tiny little world in the backwaters of space? Did life spring forth from the fountains of the “Primordial soup”? Did the building blocks of life crash into this world riding on the backs of a comets or other celestial bodies? Could any or all of these possibilities be true and could it have been set in motion by a higher being?
Who knows for certain…nobody does. There are some who think life on this planet was put her by aliens from another world, another galaxy or another dimension. The most popular belief today is that life began here on this planet by chance. Did life spring up from amino acids, proteins, nucleotides, RNA, DNA or something yet undiscovered? Science is not sure but science is trying to find out…

Why did it all happen…science tells me it was all just chance and nothing more…no preconceived idea…just chance.

What is our purpose here…what will happen to us when we die? If we follow the logic of science then there is no real purpose to living and in death there is nothing. So what is the purpose of living if there is nothing to be gained by living a full life time to reach a reward in death? Science has no answer for this. Science cannot tell me what my purpose for living is or what will happen to me after death.

Science is fascinating to me. I love learning how things are made and how they all exist together. It is amazing to discover something new and learn something I did not know before. To me there is nothing wrong with having faith in science and knowing science does not have all the answers, there is nothing wrong with having faith in a religious belief and knowing that science can explain how some things are made and how they work. When I first learned how the sun works and how it provides life through photosynthesis it was thrilling to me but that did not harm the beliefs I had at that time nor did my beliefs interfere with my fascination and interest in science. Now that my beliefs are solid my interest in science is still strong as well. What is the harm in that? There is none.


I will be making additional posts talking about each of these questions and each post will be from a different point of view.

Your point of view is also welcome Smile
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.


Last edited by Eiregirl on Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Interesting topic Very Happy

I have a whole lot to say on the subject but I have no time right now. I'm at work and my boss thinks I spend to much time on the web on working hours... He's right about that lol.

I will later explain why I think that science is not a faith, it's not something you believe into, like it is sometimes claimed. I will also point out that science does have an answer as to what is the purpose of life. And I will tell you why I think that the question : "Why are we here ?" makes no sense to me.

See ya later.

Post Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Alice In Quantum Land:
Interesting topic Very Happy

I have a whole lot to say on the subject but I have no time right now. I'm at work and my boss thinks I spend to much time on the web on working hours... He's right about that lol.

I will later explain why I think that science is not a faith, it's not something you believe into, like it is sometimes claimed. I will also point out that science does have an answer as to what is the purpose of life. And I will tell you why I think that the question : "Why are we here ?" makes no sense to me.

See ya later.


Just to make sure I am clear...I never said science was a faith. I did mention how people have faith in what they believe whether that is science, religion or philosophy. I do not ever recall even saying that science was a religion let alone a faith.

From the dictionary on my desk...definition of faith.
n. 1. Complete trust or confidence. 2. firm belief. 3. A. system of religious belief. B. belief in religious doctrines. 4. duty or commitment to fulfill a trust, promise, etc.; allegiance.

It will be interesting to see how you explain what the purpose of life is...that question has haunted science and philosophy for centuries and now...I will finally have the answer Smile yeah me Very Happy by the way if "Why are we here?" does not make sense to you then that makes it even more interesting to know the purpose of life. If you answer one then it is almost automatic the other will be answered also.

Patiently waiting Smile
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:53 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Evolution

I will reiterate that I do not fully agree with evolution as to the origins of humanity. Does biological evolution take place? Yes…I believe it does to some extent and perhaps even to a great extent over time.

We all know that the origin of life is a necessary precursor for biological evolution and that evolution does not and cannot prescribe how life began, it can only provide a possible scenerio as to how life progressed from what it was to what it is. The current scientific consensus is that the biological makeup of life came from chemical reactions but it is not clear how this occurred and there is a great deal of uncertainty about the early development of life which means there is no unity within science as to how life began.

What do many people point to as proof of evolution…fossils.

Often people point to the fossil records as proof that evolution is real and that humans along with all other living creatures descended from a common ancestor. I do believe the fossils are real and that the creatures they represent existed in the past and for all we know some of them may still exist on remote parts of earth however I do not have total faith in the methods used to pinpoint dates and ages of these fossils. I do believe that these fossilized remains are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and millions of years old but that does not mean I have to believe without doubt that a fossil is 1.2 million years old just because someone used a particular method of dating the fossil. I do have questions about the processes used to date fossils. Even some scientists who date fossils have found they are off by thousands, hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions of years due to the different processes used to date things as well as refinements and/or changes in the technology of the processes. I understand the science behind the dating of fossils but that does not mean I cannot question it.

The half-life of carbon-14 is 5,730 years and is only reliable, if you wish to use the word reliable, for dating objects up to about 60,000 years old. I wonder who stood around for 5,730 years to determine the life of carbon-14. I know I did not. The principle of carbon-14 dating applies to other isotopes as well. Potassium-40 which is naturally found in your body. Its half-life is said to be 1.3 billion years and there are many other radioisotopes used such as uranium 238, rubidium 87 etc. and it is odd…it is said that our universe is only about 14 billion years old so how could anyone honestly say that rubidium 87 has a half life of 49 billion years when according to my calculations there has never been any rubidium 87 that has been around long enough to even reach its half life let alone for anyone to honestly and accurately determine what the half life is especially since you have different people calculating it differently (I have seen it stated that rubidium has a half life of 4.7 billion years, 45 billion years, 47.5 billion years, 49 billion years 49.6 billion years and a few over 50 billion years so I did my own calculation and it says 49.67 billion years) so…decide for yourself the half life. One person I asked said, “We use decay rates to determine the half life.” Well I do not think they have been studying the decay rates long enough to perfect the methods to provide any real accuracy since decay rates can and do in many cases change over time. Sometimes the decay rate of something can be faster in the initial stages as apposed to the later stages of decay. In some cases it may be steady for a long period of time then drop off fast or vice versa. There are many scenarios but I do believe however that the calculations are acceptable as long as they continue to put the words “we assume by current methods the age of…” on the age of the fossils. Science is often thought to proceed by logically deducing the laws that govern our world. But it's not that simple because there are limits to what we can deduce from the available data, especially when it is about things in which we cannot directly participate. Radioactive decay is a good example of this.

What does all that half life stuff have to do with anything? It does not I just find it interesting Smile

Onward we go…

In discussing evolution I often find that many people do not understand the current ideas being put forth about evolution. As we know Darwin’s book on the origin of species put the idea of evolution into the public eye along with his theory of natural selection. As I have said before, I do not believe his theory is valid any longer and it is outdated…perhaps that is not a correct statement because there is some validity to the theory of natural selection but what makes the theory and also Mendel’s theory on genetics outdated is the fact that they have been combined to form the new evolutionary theory…they evolved into “The Modern Evolutionary Synthesis”. This term…actually the term “Evolutionary Synthesis” was first introduced in “Evolution: The Modern Synthesis” by Julian Huxley. He used the term to describe how gradual evolution can be explained in terms of genetic changes and recombination and the ordering of the genetic variation by natural selection. Basically this new theory added a bunch of genetics to Darwin’s theory and explains how the theory of evolution works on the genetic level

Biologically speaking:
"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles (genes) within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest proto-organism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions." Evolutionary Biology by Douglas J. Futuyma 1986

"Genetic changes do not anticipate a species' needs, and those changes may be unrelated to selection pressures on the species. Nevertheless, evolution is not fundamentally a random process." Evolution and Chance by John Wilkins 1997.

There are two types of evolution.
Microevolution and macroevolution each with its own definition.
Microevolution is "simply" the change within a gene pool over a period of time.
Macroevolution on the other hand refers to the changes within an organism over time that is significant enough to warrant identifying the organism as an entirely new species.

A change within a particular organism (mutation) is not usually considered to be evolution because of the rarity of any particular mutant at the point of its origin meaning that a particular mutation happens once and is unlikely to happen exactly the same way twice. So, mutation alone cannot produce evolutionary change, the new variant (change in an organism) must spread into the population. This can happen if the mutant provides some advantage or through random genetic drift. If a change persists and spreads through a population then it can be called evolution.

I will paraphrase something I learned in an anthropology class years ago, “simply stated, evolution is how the features and characteristics of the earth and its organisms arose from materials and life forms of the past to become what it is in the present.”

There is still no proof we descended from apes and I do not believe we did.
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:23 am 
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Cavewoman



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2056
Location: nearby


agreed.... to all the above...

now... a propostion to the scientific...
imagine .... math does not exist.


now what?

can't remember author/or exactly when that was put under my nose... it didn't turn me into a flag waving anything... but it sure did stop me dead in my tracks... i've followed the metaphysical/physics thread and been tempted to drop it in there... but ... didn't...

anywho

imagine..

mathematics do not exist...

continue convo
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" The sorcerers in life are created within each of us" --- Lynn V. Andrews

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:19 am 
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smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


"How did it all begin? Where did it start? Why did it happen? What is the purpose of life? What happens when we die?"

Gawd, sooo easy.

1. I was born and the world began

2. With ME. Duh.

3. Because it's all about ME! This is all so obvious.

4. Shopping.

5. Wut? Don't talk rubbish.

Rolling Eyes

Arrow

Cookie

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:36 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Cavewoman:
agreed.... to all the above...

now... a propostion to the scientific...
imagine .... math does not exist.


now what?

can't remember author/or exactly when that was put under my nose... it didn't turn me into a flag waving anything... but it sure did stop me dead in my tracks... i've followed the metaphysical/physics thread and been tempted to drop it in there... but ... didn't...

anywho

imagine..

mathematics do not exist...

continue convo


Thinks about math not existing...

hmmm

Will have to get back to you...ok back hmmmm

It could lead to many things...lots of possibilities

the world could be a simplier place or more complicated...

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:16 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by smart_cookie_smart:
"How did it all begin? Where did it start? Why did it happen? What is the purpose of life? What happens when we die?"

Gawd, sooo easy.

1. I was born and the world began

2. With ME. Duh.

3. Because it's all about ME! This is all so obvious.

4. Shopping.

5. Wut? Don't talk rubbish.

Rolling Eyes

Arrow

Cookie


LOL Laughing

I just gotta love this reply Smile

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:17 am 
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Guest





How did it all begin?

The idea that life sprang from chance is a fascinating one. We have no concrete proof, no solid answers. Science has however pinned down an order....... an order that is so magnificent it can be seen in the existence of a tiny atom, in the mathmatical ordering of petals on flowers, in the very constellations we dream upon. Chance... does it create such order? Does an order begin in the smallest life forms, and extend out to the expanse of the universe by some domino affect? How did it all begin? Will we ever really know? "J"

Post Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Creationism

Since talking about religion seems to be almost "forbidden" in todays society because someones "feelings" might get hurt...get a life people and read the next paragraph.

I try not to argue about religious beliefs and I definitely do not believe in forcing my beliefs on others but I do enjoy discussing different beliefs. If someone wants to discuss religion that is fine and I will share my beliefs and listen to theirs but I will not be drawn into an argument about religion. Different beliefs and points of view can be talked about without berating or degrading others. If you do not feel you can discuss or talk about religious and spiritual beliefs calmly and rationally then please do not even participate in this discussion.

There is always the chance of learning something new and possibly sharing something for others to learn when talking about ones beliefs or anything for that matter and the best way to share that is by living your life according to what you believe and the next best way is by talking about them.

Here I am going to share with you beliefs of how creation began from various religions around the world. If you happen to be a follower of that religion and if I have incorrectly stated something I welcome the correction. Also if you have any additional creation stories you would like to add then please make a reply with that story. I would also ask that the story be an actual creation story…I know we have some wonderful writers here with wonderful imaginations but please if you add a creation story make sure it is an actual one…thank you.

There are countless religions around the world, each is different from the other but they all serve the same purpose. Each religion answers basic human questions: What happens when we die…how should we live our lives…why are we here…and many of them tell us how it all began. As I dug out a few old books and surfed the web reading all kinds of creation stories I thought about making a new post just on creation stories...I will think more about it.

Hinduism
There are several creation stories in Hinduism. Hinduism believes there are times when the universe takes form and times when it dissolves back into nothing. The between times are known as the days and nights of Brahma, who is the Hindu god of creation.

Here is one of those stories.

Before time began there was no heaven, no earth and no space between. A vast dark ocean washed upon the shores of nothingness and licked the edges of night. A giant cobra floated on the waters. Asleep within its endless coils lay the Lord Vishnu. He was watched over by the mighty serpent. Everything was so peaceful and silent that Vishnu slept undisturbed by dreams or motion.

From the depths a humming sound began to tremble, Om. It grew and spread, filling the emptiness and throbbing with energy. The night had ended. Vishnu awoke. As the dawn began to break, from Vishnu's navel grew a magnificent lotus flower. In the middle of the blossom sat Vishnu's servant, Brahma. He awaited the Lord's command.

Vishnu spoke to his servant: 'It is time to begin.' Brahma bowed. Vishnu commanded: 'Create the world.'

A wind swept up the waters. Vishnu and the serpent vanished. Brahma remained in the lotus flower, floating and tossing on the sea. He lifted up his arms and calmed the wind and the ocean. Then Brahma split the lotus flower into three. He stretched one part into the heavens. He made another part into the earth. With the third part of the flower he created the skies.

The earth was bare. Brahma set to work. He created grass, flowers, trees and plants of all kinds. To these he gave feeling. Next he created the animals and the insects to live on the land. He made birds to fly in the air and many fish to swim in the sea. To all these creatures, he gave the senses of touch and smell. He gave them power to see, hear and move.

The world was soon bristling with life and the air was filled with the sounds of Brahma's creation.

Wichita (Native American Indian tribe) This is the story as told by the Wichita chief, Towakoni Jim, to George Dorsey.
In the beginning there were neither sun, nor stars, nor anything else that we know today. For a long time, the only man was Man-never-known-on-Earth. He created everything. When he created the world, he created land and water, but they were not separate, and still everything was dark. Then Man-never-known-on-Earth created a man who was known as Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light and a woman named Bright-Shining-Woman. Everything that they needed, they dreamed of, and it was there when they awoke. Bright-Shining-Woman received an ear of corn and knew that it would be the food of generations to come.

Still there was nothing but darkness. Without knowing why, Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light began a journey to the east, moving slowly through the darkness. He came to a stranger who told him that there would be many villages and many people in the future, and that it would be up to Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light to teach them. As they talked, a voice from the east called to this stranger to shoot a black-and-white deer that would follow a white deer and a black deer out of a stream nearby. Four times the stranger had to tell the impatient voice that he was preparing a bow and arrow to shoot the deer. Finally he emerged from his lodge as the deer jumped out of the water, and he shot the black-and-white deer. This meant that the earth would turn, that the stars would move, and that there would be day and night. The stranger, whose name was Star-that-is-always-moving, went to follow the deer that he had wounded, but Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light stayed by the shore. From where the voice had spoken, he now saw the sun rise for the first time. He returned to his home, but he traveled much faster now that it was light. That night he saw three stars in the sky, with another star nearby, and he concluded that they were the three deer and the man who followed them.

After there was light, villages and people multiplied, as the stranger had predicted. Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light and Bright-Shining-Woman went from village to village, teaching the people. Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light taught the men about bows and arrows, and he taught them to play the ball game and the shinny game.

Bright-Shining-Woman taught the women about corn, how to grow corn, how to feed the people with corn, how to offer some corn at each meal to Man-never-known-on-Earth, how take four kernels and rub them on their child as a prayer. She also taught them the double-ball game. She told them that, after she was gone, they could look at her face to tell when their monthly bleeding should occur, and by counting her appearances they could keep track of when their children would be born. Then she left them, and that night the first moon came up, because she was the Moon.

Man-with-the-Power-to-Carry-Light taught the men that they must offer some of the game that they caught to the moon and to the stars and to the other supernatural beings. He told them that he would leave them, but that they would see him sometimes in early morning. When they saw him, they were to take their children to drink and bathe in the river, which would give them long life. Then he left them and became the Morning Star.

Egyptian
There are many creation stories that come from ancient Egypt. Here I will give you two of those. One from the lower kingdom and one from the upper kingdom.
Lower Kingdom Creation Myth
Only the ocean existed at first. Then Ra came out of an egg that appeared on the surface of the water. Ra brought forth four children, the gods Shu and Geb and the goddesses Tefnut and Nut. Shu and Tefnut became the atmosphere. They stood on Geb, who became the earth, and raised up Nut, who became the sky. Ra ruled over all. Geb and Nut later had two sons, Set and Osiris, and two daughters, Isis and Nephthys. Osiris succeeded Ra as king of the earth, helped by Isis, his sister-wife. Set, however, hated his brother and killed him. Isis then embalmed her husband's body with the help of the god Anubis, who thus became the god of embalming. The powerful charms of Isis resurrected Osiris, who became king of the netherworld, the land of the dead. Horus, who was the son of Osiris and Isis, later defeated Set in a great battle and became king of the earth.

Upper Kingdom creation story
At first there was only Nun, the primal ocean of chaos that contained the beginnings of everything to come. From these waters came Ra who, by himself, gave birth to Shu and Tefnut. Shu, the god of air, and Tefnut, the goddess of moisture gave birth to Geb and Nut, the earth god and the sky goddess. And so the physical universe was created. Men were created from Ra's tears. They proved to be ungrateful so Ra, and a council of gods, decided they should be destroyed. Re created Sekhmet to do the job. She was very efficient and slaughtered all but a few humans, when Ra relented and tricked her into stopping. Thus was the present world created.

Against Ra's orders, Geb and Nut married. Ra was angry and ordered Shu to separate them, which he did. But Nut was already pregnant, although unable to give birth as Ra had decreed she could not give birth in any month of any year. Thoth, the god of learning, decided to help her and gambling with the moon for extra light, was able to add five extra days to the 360-day calendar. On those five days Nut gave birth to Osiris, Horus the Elder, Set, Isis, and Nephthys successively. Osiris became the symbol of good, while Set became the symbol of evil. And thus the two poles of morality were fixed once and for all.

Islam
Unlike the biblical texts of Christianity and Judaism Islam does not describe the creation process in any detail. The creation story in Islam is described in the Qur’an as the creation of the universe by Allah’s will with a single command: “Be!” as shown in the following two parts of the Qur’an.
“Creator of the heavens and the earth from nothingness, He has only to say when He wills a thing: “Be,” and it is Al-Baqarah 2:117
“That is how God creates what He wills, when He decrees a thing, He says “Be,” and it is” Aal `Imran 3:47

Christianity and Judaism
Christianity and Judaism share the creation in their biblical texts of which there are seemingly two creation stories the first is in The first creation account, Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4 and the second is in Genesis 2:4 to Genesis 2:25. That being the case lets take a look at both of them.
Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4
Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

As I said there are seemingly two creation stories in the Christian and Jewish biblical texts. The above is what people call the first creation story in the Christian and Jewish texts. The second creation story is from Genesis 2:4 to Genesis 2:25.

Genesis 2
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

These are only a few…a very few of the creation stories from around the world and there are literally thousands of them. There are stories that range from the Outback in Australia to the Eskimos of Alaska U.S. and from Canada to Argentina. There are stories that traverse the plains of Africa and the Jungles of South America. They are all fascinating…hmmm as I said before...I may create a thread for creation stories and post one a week or something…there are some very interesting ones and even some that would make you laugh. A dung beetle did it all.

There are also many beliefs that do not have a “creation” story but there are many that have aspects within their belief that could hint toward a “creation” such as in Taoism for example where the Tao is a force that flows through everything and is the first cause of everything.

So many stories…which one to believe. Amazingly they are all believed or have been believed by someone.
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:55 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Imagine a world were maths didn't exist !

Say good bye to every thing that surrounds you : your car, your TV, your microwave, your computer, your house, your money... Mathematics existed before the written word. Some civilization didn't write but still calculated, the Incas, for example, had mathematics but no alphabet.

I can't really imagine a world without maths.

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


What happens when we die?

Bill Maher explains this one very well :

(...) what is so hard about saying the words : "I don't know" . Of course there are questions that plagues all of us : How did we get here? What happens when we die. Is there a heaven... Am I on the list ? Who let the dogs out ?

But why would you believe what some other human being, who's brain, I promise you, is no bigger or better than yours when he tells you : He knows what happens when you die ?

- Don't masturbate now or you won't get to hang out with Jesus and his buddies in heaven ! How do I know... Well... I've got a pointy hat ! And a robe, and a wand...

It's so gay the whole church ! Why don't you come out of the closet !"


I love that guy Very Happy

Post Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Why are we here ?

Here is why I think that the legitimate metaphysical question "Why are we here ?" Makes no sense to me anymore.

When asking the question, you have to know where you are first then you ask Why am I here ? :

I'm in my living room, in front of my computer. Why am I here ? I am here because I enjoy talking about metaphysical questions.

Why am I in Montréal ? Because I was born here etc...

But ultimately, we don't know where we are. We don't know where "Here" is. We don't know what or where the universe is. Therefor, the question "why are we in the universe" will not make sense until we have answered the question "Where are we?" what is this universe?".

So, to me, the real question is : "Where the hell are we ?"

After answering this question then "why are we here ?" will make sense.

Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:57 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


I like this question Alice.

I think that in order to figure out how to get wherever you are going, you have to know where you are and where you've been.

Pondering,
~Hawn
_________________
'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:49 am 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


Trying to figure out where we are by figuring out where the universe is seems to me like contemplating the fuzz in my navel. Those who are connected to their spiritual nature in a conscious way bypass that sort of thing usually because the higher issue is, what is the purpose of our life.

To me it is summed up in one word, Love.

Until a soul truly learns the lessons of divine love, it is destined to rinse and repeat often.

phoenix
_________________
"A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night

Post Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:16 pm 
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