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Intelligent design. What do you think ?
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Ok... If you don't trust Wikipedia then here are other sources :

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm
http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node7.html#SECTION02122000000000000000
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/bio104/sci_meth.htm
http://science.jrank.org/pages/6002/Scientific-Method-Scientific-models.html

If you are not satisfied with these, I suggest that you do the research yourself.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:17 am 
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Khaleesi
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 551
Location: FL


Thank you for giving me something meaningful to work with. Not really sure why you didn't use those sources to begin with. But you still haven't answered my question about what YOU would have them teach in school? After all the Big Bang Theory is just that ... a THEORY! Like I said, I have no problem with them teaching both and saying "Neither can be proven"

Khaleesi
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Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:30 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


You see, when you say "just a theory" that shows you don't understand what a scientific theory is.

Read what I have sent you and then tell me why you would teach intelligent design and the big bang in the same classroom.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:59 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


By the way, Wikipedia's definition of a scientific theory is accurate if you ask me.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:15 am 
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Khaleesi
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I read it before I responded and it is still just a theory by the strict definition given by your own sources. Don't try to tell me what I do and do not understand. I went to college and worked 15 years in a well repected University. I understand EXACTLY what you sent me. It is a theory by your own sources definitions! It can not, I REPEAT, can not be taught as a scientific law, can it?

If you bothered to read what I said you would see that I said I have no problem with both being taught, NOT that both SHOULD BE taught, as long as it is qualified with the disclaimer that "it can not be proven." That disclaimer should be used for the Big Bang Theory also since it isn't a scientific law! And you still haven't answered MY QUESTION! What would you have them teach in school?

Khaleesi
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Never start a row in public when it can be settled politely in private. ~My Father~

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:16 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Well, I have not been to college, let alone a university. All I have is a professional highschool diploma and I think it's obvious that you still don't understand what a scientific theory is. Moreover you don't understand what a scientific law is either.

I don't mean this in an insulting way.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:22 am 
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Khaleesi
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Well it is insulting and since you refuse to answer my question and have moved to the realm of personal attack I will no longer respond until I receive an apology and an answer to my question. Obviously you do not want debate but to foment an argument.

Khaleesi
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Never start a row in public when it can be settled politely in private. ~My Father~

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:36 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


I do not mean this as an attack on you. I'm sorry if you think that it is the case... It's really not an attack. I'm open for discussion.

But I will not take back what I said. The simple fact that you said : I REPEAT, can not be taught as a scientific law, can it? demonstrates that you don't know what a law is, and if you mix up law and theory together then you don't know what a theory is either...

I don't know how to say it any better then this :

Intelligent design is an invalid theory. We don't teach invalid theories as if they were valid theories. It makes no sense.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:44 am 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


Alice,

Why don't you answer Khaleesi's and my questions? You seem to like to quote your definitions but not engage in answers to a direct question.
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Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:09 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Khaleesi:
My question is since no one can prove how the universe came into existence, and I do mean NO ONE CAN PROVE how the universe came into existence, then why can't the different theories be taught as THEORIES. Guess that would be too simple huh? Oh and everyone would have something to scream about then because something they dislike is being taught. But then again if they were taught as THEORIES and not FACTS what would be the problem? But then again I'm a reasonable person and don't mind THEORIES being taught.


Khaleesi


Theory…

To me whether it is scientific or otherwise it is still unproven and is not fact because when you look at some of the most famous scientific theories you will see that they are ever changing. The big bang, evolution, string, superstring and so on a person could make a laundry list of theories that are still standing simply because they have been revised over time. That is the way it is with theories especially scientific theories and all theories are falsifiable…in other words they can and may be proven wrong or in some way invalidated at some point in time and will either be discarded or revised. The reason many theories are revised is because new data or new discoveries need to be added that was not known before which only validates the point that theories whether scientific or otherwise are not proven fact.

I would have no problem having theories or theories that have proven the test of time being taught in schools.

Today we laugh at the flat earth theory, the theory that no creature on earth was ever extinct, the theory that the speed of sound could not be broken (now they say the speed of light can’t be…maybe someday it will be). Who is to say that a hundred years from now people will not look back at us and laugh because of the big bang theory or the theory of relativity?

The flat earth was taught to everyone until it was proven wrong.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:10 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Are you serious ?

I'm speechless...

I don't know what else to say. I have answered that question thousands of times now. I said over and over again why I didn't agree in teaching this theory (We are still talking about intelligent design right?)

Yes ok, if you insist, teach this theory, but mention that it is invalid and don't pretend that is has any kind of serious claims to it. Intelligent design does not live up to it's predictions, therefor it is scientifically invalid. So if you want to teach it, be sure you tell the students that this theory is not even obsolete because it never as been valid in the first place.

Yes the big bang theory etc... change over time. It's normal, that is what a theory does. If there is a change in the model, then there will be a change in the theory. It has nothing to do with the issue of teaching an invalid theory in dishonest way by saying that the theory is valid, which is what some of intelligent design supporters are doing.

The big bang theory happens to live up to its predictions not intelligent design, not my fault sorry...

I don't really understand what more you want me to say here.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:27 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Ladies,

Some of you are getting too hot under the collar.

This will be the only warning before I lock this thread.

~Hawn
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'A'a i ka hula, e waiho i ka hilahila i ka hale.
Dare to dance, leave your shyness at home.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:08 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


I just want to be sure I understand the question both of you are asking correctly. Because I really tried to give you girls an answer.

Is this your question ?

Why not teach the big bang theory, Darwinian evolution and intelligent design in science classes as if they where all equals ?

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Khaleesi
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 551
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Nope, my question was simply what do you want them to teach in school?

Khaleesi
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Hike up your skirt a little more and show your world to me.....

Never start a row in public when it can be settled politely in private. ~My Father~

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Ok, then my answer is this :

I want them to teach valid theories.

Post Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:17 pm 
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