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What are your thoughts - ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
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exchange of ideas

Hi Ladies,

I think I should invite you all to sit at a family dinner at my house! The exchange of ideas is passionate, and free, frustrating and enlightening, and very, very healthy! Chuckle....

My children, now young adults, have learned that they can shout their opinions from the mountaintop, here in this home, without fear of rejection, whether or not they agree with their parents or relatives.... They have learned the value of intellectual, philosophical, and emotional discourse, and know because of it, that despite differences, all human beings have the potential to live in peace. Potential. It is only through fear of other's opinions and ideas that we grow into defensive, warlike beings. It is only through lack of understanding of another, that we become prejudiced against them.

All that said....on the illegal immigration issue.... I agree with Eire on this one...
and I understand that we are a nation that enjoys many priviledges that others need and wish to have... It is wonderful when we can share that. But it is naive to think that we do not have to protect ourselves.
It is so difficult to go through the legal process. I have many in my family who have.... If it were a safer world, and if we did not have to be concerned about supporting so many, it would be wonderful to roam so freely.... It is a blessing though, to be able to be a legal immigrant, and to be able to wander this land freely without fear of being sent away, and to enjoy all the benefits that come with. I am a first generation American, and I know the pride and work, and sacrifice, my parents, siblings and other relatives have experienced in coming here and they would tell you of their struggles, and their blessings..... Pray for a safer world...."J"

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:32 pm 
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lori



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1454


Eire, with utmost respect to you and your OWN beliefs, i AM well aware of world issues and it is this which makes me as i am, NOT religion... but, as Awn is trying to say also, MY belief is in the bigger picture, and the belief that only love is going to fix the current mess of our planet and its stupid stupid man made selfish laws. My head came out of the sand years ago regarding how the world is RUN, CONTROLLED AND BLED TO DEATH by those in power.
Most of what is now happening is a direct result of what J says, ....lack of understanding others viewpoints and, might i just say, too many different religions coming about as a result!
As for protecting ourselves.... well it seems a bit late, therefore thought processes (or prayer as some may descriibe it) seems to be the thing which works for me so on that issue, its still how i'll be operating on this mortal coil. Hope to see you in the next world.... minus my passport. Wink
_________________
WHEN I FALL, I LOSE MY HEART AND FILL THE SPACE WITH HER..

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


I think I should invite you all to sit at a family dinner at my house! The exchange of ideas is passionate, and free, frustrating and enlightening, and very, very healthy! Chuckle....

My children, now young adults, have learned that they can shout their opinions from the mountaintop, here in this home, without fear of rejection, whether or not they agree with their parents or relatives.... They have learned the value of intellectual, philosophical, and emotional discourse, and know because of it, that despite differences, all human beings have the potential to live in peace. Potential. It is only through fear of other's opinions and ideas that we grow into defensive, warlike beings. It is only through lack of understanding of another, that we become prejudiced against them.

All that said....on the illegal immigration issue.... I agree with Eire on this one...
and I understand that we are a nation that enjoys many priviledges that others need and wish to have... It is wonderful when we can share that. But it is naive to think that we do not have to protect ourselves.
It is so difficult to go through the legal process. I have many in my family who have.... If it were a safer world, and if we did not have to be concerned about supporting so many, it would be wonderful to roam so freely.... It is a blessing though, to be able to be a legal immigrant, and to be able to wander this land freely without fear of being sent away, and to enjoy all the benefits that come with. I am a first generation American, and I know the pride and work, and sacrifice, my parents, siblings and other relatives have experienced in coming here and they would tell you of their struggles, and their blessings..... Pray for a safer world
Jcreature

J,

It is wonderful to be able to sit down with people and exchange idea’s, opinions and beliefs no matter what they are and to be able to do it without fear of reprisal. It would be a wonderful utopian world if all people of all nations, races and religious beliefs would be able to live in harmony and that is a wonderful thing to strive for but that is not what we have and I know that everyone in this discussion knows that.

I know the process of becoming a legal citizen of the United States can be long and tedious and it is the same for many countries but it is a process that is needed at this stage of world development. As it has been mentioned before, it has not always been that way and hopefully someday it will not longer have to be this way.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Eire, with utmost respect to you and your OWN beliefs, i AM well aware of world issues and it is this which makes me as i am, NOT religion... but, as Awn is trying to say also, MY belief in the bigger picture, and the belief that only love is going to fix the current mess of our planet and its stupid stupid man made selfish laws. My head came out of the sand years ago regarding how the world is RUN, CONTROLLED AND BLED TO DEATH by those in power.
Most of what is now happening is a direct result of what J says, ....lack of understanding others viewpoints and, might i just say, too many different religions coming about as a result!
As for protecting ourselves.... well it seems a bit late, therefore thought processes (or prayer as some may descriibe it) seems to be the thing which works for me so on that issue, its still how i'll be operating on this mortal coil. Hope to see you in the next world.... minus my passport.
lori

lori,

I respect you as well and appreciate your opinions.

I never thought you were not aware of world issues. I am sorry for telling you to get your head out of the sand. That was a little rude and I apologize. Sad

Although this discussion is about illegal immigration the border security aspect of the discussion has major ramifications in other areas as well. It is the many issues the world faces that goes into my opinions of this particular issue of illegal immigration. Illegal drug smuggling, human slave trade, human trafficking (smuggling illegal immigrants) and a host of other issues of which includes the entry into another country of terrorists. The lack of adequate border protection played a part in what happened to the Word Trade Center in 2001 and 1993 in the United States. I also believe that the lack of border security plays a large role in the amount of illegal drugs and other contraband that enter the various countries of the world every single day and it also plays a part in slave trade. The smuggling of drugs, contraband and human slaves has little or nothing to do with political or religious beliefs…although I do not like taking the issue down to the bare bones but I did once because that seems to be what everyone was concerned about. I don’t like doing it because I believe the human factor of the issue should be the number one factor but the bare bones of it all is money (one of the worst things ever invented). That is at the bottom of it all…money…employers do not want to pay employees any more than they have to so they hire illegal immigrants. Drug smugglers don’t care who they kill or ruin with their illegal drugs as long as they get their money. There are people who do not care who they smuggle across the border whether it is an illegal immigrant or someone who has been kidnapped to be someone else’s slave as long as they get their money.

As to the religious aspect of this issue. I am a very tolerant person especially when it comes to religious beliefs. I hold nothing against anyone who believes anything other than what I believe and I love talking to them about their beliefs and my own. What I do have a problem with is when somebody thinks their belief tells them that they should kill me. Is that a lack of understanding on my part…or theirs? I try to understand their views and opinions but I cannot because when I read their “bible” I do not see it telling them to kill me. Am I not understanding it correctly or are they reading something into that is not there?

It does not matter how tolerant I am or what I believe. It does not matter that I love and respect everyone and their opinions. It does not matter that I think we should all just learn to get along with one another. I would love to live in the utopian world where everyone agreed to live and let live and that is something to work toward and strive to achieve but we have to face and address the issues of today as we work toward that goal.

If every country on this world suddenly opened up there borders and said, “Come on in I don’t care who you are just come on in. We have open borders you can come and go as you please.” What do you think would happen?

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:33 pm 
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lori



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1454


its not gonna happen now.... sadly, its far too late in this world is what im getting at. Wink
all we have left is faith in the good, so why waste more time fighting or even brainstorming over it? just love. you'll still get there eventually. Wink
_________________
WHEN I FALL, I LOSE MY HEART AND FILL THE SPACE WITH HER..

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:37 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by lori:
its not gonna happen now.... sadly, its far too late in this world is what im getting at. Wink
all we have left is faith in the good, so why waste more time fighting or even brainstorming over it? just love. you'll still get there eventually. Wink


lori,

So we should not waste time trying to make the borders more secure?
Should we just give up?
Should we throw our hands up in the air and say come on in one and all?
Should we just give up trying to make the world a better place for everyone to live?

Just love is a nice concept...to bad there are so many who do not wish to return that love...or perhaps they want to return it carved into a bullet.

I think my next life and next existence will be much better but at the moment I am here and to damn stubborn to give up. Very Happy

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:09 pm 
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lori



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1454


Well best of luck to you. I admire your passion. I dont think you should give up what you BELIEVE to be right. It will bode well for our next lives!
We are all here on a mission even if it seems we arent and each has a different way of looking at life. Nothing wrong with being stubborn if it gets results. Just, we all have our own stubborness as well lol. Wink
_________________
WHEN I FALL, I LOSE MY HEART AND FILL THE SPACE WITH HER..

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:21 pm 
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cupcakes



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 324
Location: NY


I have not kept up to date on this thread and did not read it all because it's too long, but the other day I read a newspaper article about pregnant Mainland women in HK.

After the handover of HK from Britian to China, there has been a large influx of Mainlanders crossing the border to find a better life in HK, many of them are illegal.

The government has made it very difficult for mainlanders to become citizens...nearly impossible for the many, many, many domestic helpers (maids) from poorer Asian countries that are vital to HK society/lifestyle.

The article was about a HK native man, who was speaking out about the ridicuous treatment of his daughter in law, a mainlander who was charged more than 4 times the hospital fees of a HK citizen (which they could not afford) for giving birth in a public hospital...in addition...they denied her services until her bills were paid, endangering the life of this man's grandchild. And supposedly this is not uncommon. He accused the government of wrongfully targeting pregnant women instead of ...i don't know...something else...





And...last year...when I was still in the states... I noticed that some of my friends from HK (who are now studying in England) joined a group to drive all illegal immigrants out of HK... they also targeted pregant women...children of mainlanders born in HK, anyone with a mainland accent, etc etc

It went beyond legal issues to pretty much a rejection of anyone from the mainland. It made me so upset that my own friends...who are themselves foreiigners in ENgland and have chinese accents could say this kind of thing about mainlanders...who at least share the same culture and written language.

It's all about money money money.

It makes me so sad.





Oh...and another thing...today I was talking to some other teachers at the school...apparently at the place in the "new Territories" that I was substituing at last week...there has been yet another attempt at suicide.

A mother threw her child into the water and then jumped in herself. A lot of the people there are mainlanders who have come to HK looking for a better life...but they've been unsuccessful. earlier there was a story about a mother throwing her three children out their apt building and then jumping out herself...


Again...
this makes me very sad Crying or Very sad


~Cups

Post Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:25 pm 
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