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Global warming…is it real or just a big lie?
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lori



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1454


Eire i agree with some opinions too. lol. just not everyones. Wink
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Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:50 pm 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida
The sun is the reason we are heating up

From the Telegraph.co.uk

The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
By Michael Leidig and Roya Nikkhah



Global warming has finally been explained: the Earth is getting hotter because the Sun is burning more brightly than at any time during the past 1,000 years, according to new research.

A study by Swiss and German scientists suggests that increasing radiation from the sun is responsible for recent global climate changes.

Dr Sami Solanki, the director of the renowned Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Gottingen, Germany, who led the research, said: "The Sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just some more interesting facts.

phoenix
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Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:26 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Phoenix,

I will not disagree with what you are saying because to a great degree we are saying to same thing...not totally but to a degree.

You do not think people have a great effect on the climate with all of the pollution people create but you do agree the we do affect the climate but not enough to cause any drastic change in the normal cycle of events.

I do think people can have an affect on the climate but I view it as a slow but increasing affect because of what is slowly happening to our oceans due to the pollution we keep pouring into them. I know there is no picture perfect way to pinpoint how minute or great that affect is but I feel we do have an affect.

As I mentioned in earlier posts I believe that global warming is real and a big lie. It is real because it has happened many times before for various reasons and at points in history there have been apparent combinations of reasons from meteorites and comets to volcanic and sun activity. I believe that because of the evidence that has been found showing that those events can and do effect the climate. I also believe that climate change happens as a normal cycle of events because of the data that has gathered off of this world of ours showing that climate change does not only happen here on earth but on other planets in our solar system as well.

The only point I really see that we have any significant difference of opinion on is just how much us mere humans can and do affect our environment and thereby our climate. Could the pollution we create make the next ice age come 1,000 years sooner, 10,000 years, 100,000 years or just 10 years? But...perhaps the pollution we create will delay the next climate change...hmmm well it could happen.

None of that changes my greatest point to this…regardless of what we believe should we not be good caretakers of the world we live on so that future generations will have a better chance of surviving what will inevitably come as well as leaving them a cleaner and healthier environment to live in.

The next heat wave and ice age is coming…it is just a matter of when not if.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:47 am 
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Phoenix
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Eiregirl,

As I have said, I do believe in sensible conservationism. Leaving a beautiful environment is definately something our children and those who follow them deserve. I just want to make sure we have a country and economy they even want to live in to enjoy it. The neo-cons and radical environmentalist agenda's if left unchecked will not allow for that to happen, and that is what concerns me.

phoenix
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Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:00 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny
Re: Reference

Material being posted in here is saying "this", "that" and the "other" ...
... how scientists say "this", how "scientists" say "that", how statistics say the "other" ...
Peculiarly enough though, there is no reference for anything.
As to, who said "this", who said "that", which statistic said the "other".
Anything ? Everything ? Nothing ?


awn,

When different people have different views and opinions then you will get “this”, “that” and the “other”.
I find it to be a wonderful thing when people educate themselves on a subject and formulate their own opinions and views based on what they learned. If someone does not agree then they have the opportunity to say so and they have the ability to do their own research and come up with an apposing opinion or possibly find that they agree with what someone else said…but at least they come to form their opinion on their own terms and not simply because someone else said they should think a certain thing.

I have said many times in the things I post here at Mels especially here in the debate forum, if anyone wants to know where my information comes from or how I formulate my opinion all they have to do is ask. There are many things that go into what I write and post here and I do not ever base my opinions on what one person says or thinks about a subject…I don’t roll my eyes when someone says “expert” for nothing because what one so called “expert” says I can find ten experts of my own and they will all have a different opinion. Sometimes I will list a reference in my post and sometimes I will not but one thing is always made very clear just as it was made very clear in my original post to this thread with the following words…
“I could have quoted any of hundreds of studies by leading scientists on all sides of this issue but I did not want to put you through that…however if you would like that information for your reading enjoyment let me know and I will provide you with a list of books, some websites and a few published papers on the subject.”

So if you do not already have your own opinion on this subject and would like to read the volumes of material that I read (although nothing I read really changed what I already thought…very much) then all you have to do is ask.

This is not about “statistics” or what “scientist” said this or what “expert” said that or “who” said the other. This is about a persons own opinion and view on a particular subject. If a person wants to use none of those things, some of them or all of them to put forth a thought, an opinion or just as a means to further the discussion then so be it.

I respect other peoples opinions and their right to have their own opinions and views about things although I do hope their opinions come from educating themselves on the subject and not because someone said they should think a certain thing.

If you have questions about the materials presented in this discussion or if you have any additional information you would like to share then please post it and we will discuss it.

I would love to read what your actual thoughts and opinions are on the subject being discussed.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:57 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Eiregirl,

As I have said, I do believe in sensible conservationism. Leaving a beautiful environment is definately something our children and those who follow them deserve. I just want to make sure we have a country and economy they even want to live in to enjoy it. The neo-cons and radical environmentalist agenda's if left unchecked will not allow for that to happen, and that is what concerns me.

phoenix


Could that be a way of having a good balance...by having extremists on both sides with the moderates in the middle keeping them all in check Wink
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:04 am 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


quote:
Originally posted by Eiregirl:
quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Eiregirl,

As I have said, I do believe in sensible conservationism. Leaving a beautiful environment is definately something our children and those who follow them deserve. I just want to make sure we have a country and economy they even want to live in to enjoy it. The neo-cons and radical environmentalist agenda's if left unchecked will not allow for that to happen, and that is what concerns me.

phoenix


Could that be a way of having a good balance...by having extremists on both sides with the moderates in the middle keeping them all in check Wink


We can only hope that would be the case. So far, the vocal environmentalist and neo-cons have used this issue and are stripping our rights despite the objections of the moderates.

phoenix
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Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:24 am 
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awnidea



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: 3rd planet from our Sun
Consideration

. . .


Yes, i do perceive “Love of Wisdom” (which is what the word “philosophy” means), … (OH! and for the ones who consider in terms of persecution, i say this “… ‘Love of Wisdom’, a.k.a. ‘Philosophy’ …” ) … to be, a most virtuous endeavour in and of my life.

However, i am not a philosopher myself.


I appreciate a good quote that rings TRUTH to my ”inner being” and for this, i post the following (oh! and when i quote, i reference names where i am aware of them atleast, out of respect for payment of dues) :-

" … If thou continuest to take delight in idle argumentation thou mayest be qualified to combat with the sophists, but will never know how to live with human beings … "
- Socrates



Truth is, i do not take delight in it.

Truth is, i do not wish to be qualified to combat with the sophists , either.

Truth is, i wish to know how to live with human beings.


Truth is, i am a human being myself and so, i choose to learn to live with all of us on this, our precious Earth.



my truth

Smile
awnidea
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Last edited by awnidea on Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:59 am 
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Guest





Global Warming

Hi Eire...
This is a fantastic post.... I share your perspective.... and we all should give something back to our beautiful Earth, whether we believe in global warming or not.... and thank you Lost for the list which is very helpful because the bottom line is, a lot of us don't exactly know what we can do to help preserve our natural resources. We are caught in a technology and industrial age, but we can still do things to give back.I am promising myself to be more aware.... I do way too much driving, and finally bought a more gas efficient vehicle....It's little but, the mileage is much better, and I have to go look for those light bulbs now.... Thank you for the reminder of how precious this home is. If everyone does a little... the earth reaps a lot. "J"

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida
On the brighter side

There is a problem with the new bulbs to save electricity and that is disposal of such bulbs when they go out. Sure they last a long time, but eventually there will be millions of these bulbs going out, and people are lazy and will just toss them in the trash. The bulbs contain mercury.

from http://www.worldwise.com/recfluorlig.html

Fluorescent light bulbs contain mercury. The standard fluorescent lamp contains approximately 20 milligrams of mercury. While there are no known health hazards from exposure to lamps that are intact, improper disposal of fluorescent lamps can contaminate the environment. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that over 800 million lamps are produced each year to replace 800 million lamps that are then disposed. Since 1 gram of mercury is enough to contaminate a 2-acre pond, there is enough mercury in those lamps to contaminate 20 million acres of water.

Mercury is toxic to the human nervous system. Chronic breathing of mercury vapors can cause a range of physical symptoms, including inability to coordinate body movement and impairment of hearing, speech and vision. Exposure to mercury in other forms can lead to skin rashes and kidney damage.

~~~~~~~~~~~

A proper recycling effort needs to be enacted in every community for these bulbs. So far I have not seen any effort on the part of our leaders to do this, and it will take some time and work on the part of everyone to come up with a solution as fast as possible.

phoenix
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Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Jcreature and Phoenix,

If you want to save energy in your home and help protect the environment at the same time then do these simple things. If you use 100 watt light bulbs then switch to 75 watt and if you use 75 watt then switch to 60 watt. In areas where you really do not need a bright light use lower wattage bulbs. If possible switch to LED lighting as much as you can.

I believe that as LED lighting improves it will eventually replace both incandescent and fluorescent lights as “the” best energy saving and longest lasting light. That light source is the light emitting diode. It is already in the widespread market of flashlights and that is wonderful because of the amount of batteries these lights keep out of our landfills. LED’s use less power thereby we use fewer batteries.

In the market of home and industry lighting there are some applications where LED’s can and are being used more and more such as for EXIT signs, hallway and decorative lighting in businesses even traffic lights in many communities are being changed over to LED. A wonderful application of LED lighting that I have found is in landscape lighting because of the vast flexibility of use and array of colours. LED lighting is, relatively speaking, new to the general public as a source of home lighting and LED’s are still a little behind the curve in being on par with incandescent and fluorescent lighting in areas where you want to have bright light over a large area from a single source of light but LED lighting is quickly catching up and will shortly exceed both of those as “the” light. Currently there are many applications where LED lighting can be used in the home where they do exceed incandescent and fluorescent lighting such as decorative lighting, nightlights and landscape lighting and any area in your home or business where you do not want bright lights over a wide area. This is mainly because LED’s are focused lights and therefore are best used as spotlights, reading lights, signage lighting, desk lamps, security lights, etc. They do not radiate light in 360 degrees as an incandescent or fluorescent light does however new designs in the bulbs are addressing this problem giving LED’s more radiant’s in the 360 degree spectrum and I believe within the next several years a fully LED lighted house will be the way to go for the combination of energy savings and environmental protection.

As far as energy savings…currently…LED lighting can only be surpassed by free natural light that is limited by daylight hours. Depending on the incandescent light you would use 50 to 150 incandescent lightbulbs to about 10 to 15 fluorescent bulbs for a single LED lightbulb. LED lights last between 50,000 and 150,000 hours of use.

Cost…
Yes LED lighting costs more than any conventional light but in the long run you would actually save money. In many cases it is not a matter of saving in the long run it is a matter of being able to afford it initially. Not to worry though because the cost of LED lighting is continually falling and will eventually be on par with incandescent and fluorescent lights as LED lighting continues to improve and becomes more and more popular.

So if you would like check out LED lighting go by your home store or home decorating store and check them out…if they do not have any LED displays ask them why and if they say “LED lighting is not that popular” or “Led lighting is not very good” tell them you disagree because there are many people who use LED lighting and there are good applications for it that incandescent and fluorescent lights cannot compare.

Do a little research on LED’s and see where you can use them in your home.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Phoenix
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Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


I just saw a show on how LED's are made, pretty interesting. I have not look into home lighting by LED's for the reason's you listed, but I will investigate. I did see a really kewl coffee table that uses them and works on touch.

Thanks,

phoenix
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"A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night

Post Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:03 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


Awn,

Very Happy

Lettering in darkred is attributed to awnidea aka Awn

Yes, i do perceive “Love of Wisdom” (which is what the word “philosophy” means), … (OH! and for the ones who consider in terms of criminality, i say this “… ‘Love of Wisdom’, a.k.a. ‘Philosophy’ …” ) … to be, a most virtuous endeavour in and of my life. Awn

(correct me if I am wrong) I believe Nietzsche said, “philosophy without experience is empty and experience without philosophy is blind”.

Philosophy…political, religious, scientific, personal…there are many different philosophies but they all have common ground. The exchange of idea’s, opinions, thoughts and ideals, the asking of questions, the search for answers are all part of the quest of knowledge and wisdom.

“The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.” Niels Bohr

However, i am not a philosopher myself. Awn

“Then may we not fairly plead in reply that our true lover of knowledge naturally strives for truth, and is not content with common opinion, but soars with undimmed and unwearied passion till he grasps the essential nature of things with the mental faculty fitted to do so, that is, with the faculty which is akin to reality, and which approaches and unites with it, and begets intelligence and truth as children, and is only released from travail when it has thus reached knowledge and true life and satisfaction?” Plato

Plato also is attributed to saying, “And those whose hearts are fixed on Reality itself deserve the title of Philosophers.”

Awn we are all philosophers of one sort or another.
Here in this forum we like the exchange of idea’s. The quest for wisdom by sharing our thoughts, experiences and knowledge.

I appreciate a good quote that rings TRUTH to my ”inner being” and for this, i post the following Awn

I appreciate a good quote also but I also like to make sure people know what I think.

" … If thou continuest to take delight in idle argumentation thou mayest be qualified to combat with the sophists, but will never know how to live with human beings … "
- Socrates
Awn

Well I for one love a good discussion and I delight in being considered a sophist because I enjoy discussing just about anything. I also like to discuss things that can or do affect my life and the lives of those I love and other people such as the issue being discussed here because I strive for a solution to be found and implemented that helps all concerned. As long as people with differing philosophies, views and opinions on any particular subject are willing to discuss the matter then in my opinion they know how to live with other human beings. It is when people stop talking to each other and stop exchanging idea’s that trouble ensues and strife takes over.


Truth is, i do not take delight in it.

Truth is, i do not wish to be qualified to combat with the sophists , either.

Truth is, i wish to know how to live with human beings.


Truth is, i am a human being myself and so, i choose to learn to live with all of us on this, our precious Earth.
Awn

I find it sad Sad that you do not delight in the exchange of philosophy, the exchange of idea’s, knowledge and wisdom…I find it sad Sad that you do not wish to find the wisdom that can be gained from discussion.

“History is Philosophy teaching by examples.” Attributed to Thucydides

If one cannot learn from the past in order to make their own future better then they have learned nothing.

“Mankind has tried the other two roads to peace - the road of political jealousy and the road of religious bigotry - and found them both equally misleading. Perhaps it will now try the third, the road of scientific truth, the only road on which the passenger is not deceived. Science does not, ostrich-like, bury its head amidst perils and difficulties. It tries to see everything exactly as everything is.” Serviss

As long as there is political jealousy and religious bigotry their will never be peace.

As Blaise Pascal said, “There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees, which are falsehoods on the other.”

What is true to one person may not be true to another.

Eiregirl Arrow
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:07 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
I just saw a show on how LED's are made, pretty interesting. I have not look into home lighting by LED's for the reason's you listed, but I will investigate. I did see a really kewl coffee table that uses them and works on touch.

Thanks,

phoenix


It is amazing how far the technology in using LED’s for household lighting has progressed in just the last few years. and the potential engery savings is tremendous not to mention low cost associated with using LED's...will be nice once the cost of purchasing goes down so that more people can afford it.
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:24 am 
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33LB



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 16
Re: The sun is the reason we are heating up

quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:

The truth about global warming - it's the Sun that's to blame
By Michael Leidig and Roya Nikkhah


ok, but the national scientific organisations of EVERY major industrialised country will tell you that the sun is NOT to blame. so why do you choose to believe this minority of scientists who think it is purely caused by the sun?
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Post Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:26 pm 
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