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Global warming…is it real or just a big lie?
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awnidea



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: 3rd planet from our Sun
Time

Khaleesi,

"ayi de pros fos thn alithia chronos", "time leads the light towards the truth" - Menandros


Oh! And in addition,


"ithous de vasanos estin anthropis chronos", "time trials the morals of human beings" - Menandros


my truth

Smile
awnidea
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" ... 'what distinguishes the men from the boys, is the size of their toys' ... what distinguishes women from girls, is the size of their decisions ... " - Noetis

Post Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:26 am 
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Khaleesi
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 551
Location: FL


awnidea,

Just because you can quote Menandros, Monarch of the Greek Kingdom of Bactria does not change the fact that you were rude to a respected member of this site. Nor does it change the fact that Eire set forth her views in an orderly manner and you did not do anything to disprove her views. You merely attacked her personally. If you want to debate the facts then do so but personal attacks are viewed in my opinion as a mark of your character. So quote all you want of Greek monarchs and philosophers, poets bartenders and prostitutes for all I care.

BTW I never said I agreed or disagreed with Eire. Don't assume you know my opinion on the subject.

Khaleesi
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Never start a row in public when it can be settled politely in private. ~My Father~

Post Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:12 pm 
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awnidea



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: 3rd planet from our Sun
Time

Khaleesi,


"what one 'sees', IS what one gets ..."


I do NOT believe in "antagonism", mainly because i am of the idea that, it is a "male attribute" and in any way, i am not "attracted" to it ...
I do believe in "synagonism", though ... Smile


The rest, is left upto each person to "see".


Oh! And, thank you for explaining "things" Smile ... including, "personal attack" ... i do believe it is becoming clearer for anyone to "get" ... Smile


all the best

my truth

Smile
awnidea
_________________
" ... 'what distinguishes the men from the boys, is the size of their toys' ... what distinguishes women from girls, is the size of their decisions ... " - Noetis

Post Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


Ok, different view. Does earth's climate change? Yes it does. Second and more important question, is man causing this change? That is still under much debate and is not an accepted fact in scientific circles. The facts as we know it, is that CO2 rises because the earth heats up more. It is not that the earth heats up more because CO2 rises. Second point, man's contribution to the effects of CO2 is somewhere between 1 and 2 percent of the total gases they are blaiming global warming on now. A volcano erupting puts many thousand times more gases into the atmosphere than anything man does.

CFC's were targeted in the 80's not because they really effected much, but because Dupont was losing the patent rights, and they wanted to control the processes in which we cool our vehicles and refrigerators, so of course they had an alternative chemical all ready. The only issue was how to get people away from Freon (sp) and onto the new patented system that by the way eats the rubber o-rings and makes your refrigerators and air compressors need servicing more often, so they outlawed freon, and now we all have to use their new better chemical.

The polar caps have gone through these changes, the Ozone layer has had holes in the past and they have closed up just as quickly too. In the 70's we were all warned of the coming ice-age. Hell, they can't even get the hurricane season predictions right, and yet people think they can tell what's going to happen in 50 years? I am not against conservation, but I am against bureacratic mandates that cause American's to have their costs for manufacturing increased a thousand fold while the rest of the planet doesnt do a damn thing to clean up their act.

It's all about big business, global abuse of manpower through redistribution of labor, and ultimately the real power brokers cashing in on the backs of the poor yet again.

Conserve, live clean, go green all YOU want, but don't rush head long into pseudo science and claim it's fact when there are many experts in the scientific community who vehemently deny the so called facts that have been presented. I believe a lot more study needs to be done so our so called solutions don't actually cause more harm than good.

phoenix
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"A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night

Post Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:04 am 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Re: Time

quote:
Originally posted by awnidea:
Khaleesi,


"what one 'sees', IS what one gets ..."


I do NOT believe in "antagonism", mainly because i am of the idea that, it is a "male attribute" and in any way, i am not "attracted" to it ...
I do believe in "synagonism", though ... Smile


The rest, is left upto each person to "see".


Oh! And, thank you for explaining "things" Smile ... including, "personal attack" ... i do believe it is becoming clearer for anyone to "get" ... Smile


all the best

my truth

Smile
awnidea



I am wondering what exactly your views are on this interesting topic rather than your attempts to bait people into arguments that have nothing to do with the discussion. I did not see any attack upon you as a person, just true criticism of you attacking a respected member of the community. Khaleesi and Eiregirl are owed an apology and if you are not able to do so, then that speaks volumes in itself.

phoenix
_________________
"A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night

Post Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:11 am 
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awnidea



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: 3rd planet from our Sun
Time

Smile Very Happy Smile

I do believe that a "smile" may not "speak" that much, ... however, it "reads" well ... Smile ... and I do love sharing it ... !!! ... ... ... Very Happy


oh! And, wishes for a Good Month of November Very Happy


my truth

Smile
awnidea
_________________
" ... 'what distinguishes the men from the boys, is the size of their toys' ... what distinguishes women from girls, is the size of their decisions ... " - Noetis

Post Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:05 am 
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lori



Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 1454


ok.... this is my take on the subject... having read with deep interest all of the celestine prophecies!

We have been told all the dangers. Some believe, some dont, that this is going to cause the end of the planet eventually and is a man-made cause and effect which has been happening for years. Its also been suggested that its too late to reverse the situation.
Others believe its been happening all along since the creation of the universe.... i.e. the natural cycles of existence. Inevitable and unstoppable.

I believe its all about how many of us think a certain way. In otherwords, what we all BELIEVE is going to be our eventual outcome and fate, is what will happen.
In this universe of cause and effect, we must remember that 'thoughts' EXIST, just as the physical does, and therefore are bound to
cause an end sooner or later. Lets be positive and concentrate on making a good ending then, by taking into consideration both our physical actions and how we think. lol Wink
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Post Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:38 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Cunni_L:
Oh thank you for telling me about this discussion, admittedly it will take me several days to read everyones take on this, because I am stopping in the middle of chores and writing, and . . . but i read yours eiregirl and glanced at the first reply will keep coming back to get them all.

Thank you! what you said is just right on with me and that comment I made on that other thread. There is so much to be considered and I am sure there are variables and/or factors we don't even know to consider, and yes, we do add wood to the fire, in fact besides whatever else is happening (global warming etc.) we (humanity) are daily pouring gasoline on and lighting matches nearby. and i understand what the one side means to do, to scare people into treating the world better, but that's not the way, it won't work . Unfortunately, I hate to be a pessimist but I don't think we'll ever get everyone on-board with doing the right thing for the world, the best we can hope for is to get enough people on it that powers that legislate will set better standards in laws governing what is permissible and not.


Cunni,

Thank you very much for joining the discussion and sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread.

Humanity plays a major role on this world of ours and we should be good caretakers of our home but far to many just simply don't care about tomorrow. I am all for living for the day...but I plan for tomorrow.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:59 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by luvinmomofone1:

quote:
If every household in the U.S. replaced a burned-out bulb with an energy-efficient, ENERGY STAR qualified compact fluorescent bulb, the cumulative effect is enormous. It would prevent greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to that from nearly 800,000 cars. It would also save enough energy to light 2.5 million homes for a year.


that i can actually say i have done!! every single light in and outside of my house has been replaced with those new energy efficient bulbs you have mentioned!! i myself believe that they need to make it so if you have to drive you MUST carpool and everyone else either walk, bicycle, skate, or take a horse and buggy like the amish. or use a bus system to get around!! we need less cars on the roads or more green energy cars on the roads! at this point in time they KNOW we need an alternate cleaner fuel but the vehicles are soooo expesive and so is the fuel that not alot of ppl can afford them

my ideal house would be run by solar and wind power. but since i am not rich and cannot afford to buy a house let alone run it like i want..i have no say in that! global warming is real..weather we caused it or weather its a natural occurance the only thing we can do about it is everything we can do within our power to give back to the earth what we take so it can support us for our kids futures and thier kids futures and down the line!! i do what i can..its not much but i try!! we dont have a recycling place in our small rural town and i dont have a car to drive to one so i cannot recycle...as a matter of fact alot of really rural ppl dont even have trash pickup..they burn all their trash..what dont burn they make their own landfills on their own property and cover it up!! i used to have to do that but now i live in a town with water and trash instead of a well and burning!..i live in oklahoma and i can say i have seen the winters get warmer for the last 10 years for sure..when my son was small ...like 3 we used to get a good snowfall every summer..more than one sometimes and we are in southern oklahoma but now all we get are ice storms and sleet! the springs are milder too but when it storms the tornadoes that come out are alot bigger and stronger and do alot more damage..its funny tho the last 2 years we have hardly had any tornadoes in our area and we are in the middle of tornadoe alley!! not to say we havent had any..just not as frequently and not as many..but worse for what little in amt we have gotten! we used to have 4 seasons..now it seems like we have 2! there is practically no fall and no spring..it goes from 40 or 50 degrees one day to 80 the next and keeps rising til winter then its just the opposite..its 80 one day and 50 the next and it stays cold til summer! the changes are not subtle anymore and it scares me..but i feel that other than what little things i can do to do my part ....its not enuff and whats gonna happen for my son and his kids??


luvin,

Thank you very much for your thoughts and comments and thank you for doing what you can. Very Happy

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:04 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


awn,

the only way I am to explain the question you have raised and writing thereafter is, your proclaiming you are from Andromeda and not of this planet.

Have to help the adopted planet ye know…until I catch the pink bunny and get a jump start for my spaceship.


That and, an apparent and maybe a more logical deduction that, it is material from a "Propaganda Department" of NSA (No Such Agency) or something of the "sort", that aims to "infiltrate" and "monitor" the "subjects of communities".

Well…I have no doubt some of the crap being spouted by extremists on every side of the issue are trying to use propaganda tactics to further their own views of global warming. I also have no doubt that there are people who would love to “monitor the subjects of communities”

Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:13 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny
Re: Time

quote:
Originally posted by awnidea:
Khaleesi,


"what one 'sees', IS what one gets ..."


I do NOT believe in "antagonism", mainly because i am of the idea that, it is a "male attribute" and in any way, i am not "attracted" to it ...
I do believe in "synagonism", though ... Smile


The rest, is left upto each person to "see".


Oh! And, thank you for explaining "things" Smile ... including, "personal attack" ... i do believe it is becoming clearer for anyone to "get" ... Smile


all the best

my truth

Smile
awnidea


awn,

Have you ever read "Towards a theory of synagonism"? It is interesting.

Eiregirl
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:31 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
Ok, different view. Does earth's climate change? Yes it does. Second and more important question, is man causing this change? That is still under much debate and is not an accepted fact in scientific circles. The facts as we know it, is that CO2 rises because the earth heats up more. It is not that the earth heats up more because CO2 rises. Second point, man's contribution to the effects of CO2 is somewhere between 1 and 2 percent of the total gases they are blaiming global warming on now. A volcano erupting puts many thousand times more gases into the atmosphere than anything man does.

CFC's were targeted in the 80's not because they really effected much, but because Dupont was losing the patent rights, and they wanted to control the processes in which we cool our vehicles and refrigerators, so of course they had an alternative chemical all ready. The only issue was how to get people away from Freon (sp) and onto the new patented system that by the way eats the rubber o-rings and makes your refrigerators and air compressors need servicing more often, so they outlawed freon, and now we all have to use their new better chemical.

The polar caps have gone through these changes, the Ozone layer has had holes in the past and they have closed up just as quickly too. In the 70's we were all warned of the coming ice-age. Hell, they can't even get the hurricane season predictions right, and yet people think they can tell what's going to happen in 50 years? I am not against conservation, but I am against bureacratic mandates that cause American's to have their costs for manufacturing increased a thousand fold while the rest of the planet doesnt do a damn thing to clean up their act.

It's all about big business, global abuse of manpower through redistribution of labor, and ultimately the real power brokers cashing in on the backs of the poor yet again.

Conserve, live clean, go green all YOU want, but don't rush head long into pseudo science and claim it's fact when there are many experts in the scientific community who vehemently deny the so called facts that have been presented. I believe a lot more study needs to be done so our so called solutions don't actually cause more harm than good.

phoenix


Phoenix,

“It is a wholesome and necessary thing for us to turn again to the earth and in the contemplation of her beauties to know of wonder and humility.” Rachel Carson

I could not agree more about what you said about big business and government. They love screwing people every chance they get and I love sticking right back at them every chance I get. Knowing that they love taking advantage of us and using the things that concern us to their own ends does not change my opinion about trying to make this world a better place to live and to live in harmony with nature.

“Couples are wholes and not wholes, what agrees disagrees, the concordant is discordant. From all things one and from one all things.” Heraclitus

I use that quote to say that I agree with you much of what you said…not all but a great deal of it. What I disagree with is the “appearance” that you believe what so-called “experts” say against the concept that humanity as a whole has little to no effect on any possible climate change whether that would be a global warming or an ice age.

“If you want to know your past - look into your present conditions. If you want to know your future - look into your present actions.” I forget who said that…oh well

The major force behind the climate here on earth is our oceans and do you have any idea how much garbage is dumped into the oceans every day not to mention every year? Tons would not be a sufficent word nor would megatons be a good enough word. It is not “just” the amount of pollutants poured into our atmosphere that could “possibly” effect our climate and does affect our enviroment but it is also the parts of nature that we are harming with our pollution that has a much greater effect.

“Those who dwell, as scientists or laymen, among the beauties and mysteries of the earth are never alone or weary of life.” Rachel Carson

Yes there have been people ranting about this and that and how we pollute our world since the 1950’s and 60’s and even before then there were people fighting to protect nature. These people were and are correct. They know that if we keep on destroying nature that sooner or later it will bite us in the ass. It is such a small gradual change that is goes by almost unnoticable and the major driving force behin our climate is our oceans…the oceans truly are the life givers of this world.

“Nature has no mercy at all. Nature says, I'm going to snow. If you have on a bikini and no snowshoes, that's tough. I am going to snow anyway.” Maya Angelou


Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:15 am 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


quote:
Originally posted by lori:
ok.... this is my take on the subject... having read with deep interest all of the celestine prophecies!

We have been told all the dangers. Some believe, some dont, that this is going to cause the end of the planet eventually and is a man-made cause and effect which has been happening for years. Its also been suggested that its too late to reverse the situation.
Others believe its been happening all along since the creation of the universe.... i.e. the natural cycles of existence. Inevitable and unstoppable.

I believe its all about how many of us think a certain way. In otherwords, what we all BELIEVE is going to be our eventual outcome and fate, is what will happen.
In this universe of cause and effect, we must remember that 'thoughts' EXIST, just as the physical does, and therefore are bound to
cause an end sooner or later. Lets be positive and concentrate on making a good ending then, by taking into consideration both our physical actions and how we think. lol Wink


lori,

Even though quotes are for the most part nothing more than another persons opinion...I happen to respect other peoples opinions (especially when they agree with me Wink )

"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions." Antoinette Blackwell

I know and believe we can (and many do) live in peace and harmony with nature. To preserve our world for future generations should be a goal for everyone. To make sure there are enough resources for everyone...water and food especially as well as natural resources. If we can achieve and maintain a balance between useage and renewal then we will have preserved the lives of our great grand-childrens grand children. Is that not the ultimate goal?

“There is more violence in an English hedgerow than in the meanest streets of a great city.” P. D. James

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
_________________
All poems and stories posted by Eiregirl are Copyright 2005 - 2008 Aoibhegréine These literary works are my property under copyright. If you wish to use my work for any purpose please ASK FIRST.

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:46 am 
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awnidea



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: 3rd planet from our Sun
Reference

Material being posted in here is saying "this", "that" and the "other" ...


... how scientists say "this", how "scientists" say "that", how statistics say the "other" ...


Peculiarly enough though, there is no reference for anything.


As to, who said "this", who said "that", which statistic said the "other".


Anything ? Everything ? Nothing ?


my truth

Smile
awnidea
_________________
" ... 'what distinguishes the men from the boys, is the size of their toys' ... what distinguishes women from girls, is the size of their decisions ... " - Noetis

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:31 am 
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Phoenix
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 1664
Location: Tallahassee Florida


Eiregirl,

I respect you a great deal, and enjoy these discussions. I whole heartedly agree with reasonable conservation. What I do not agree with are those who have influence in our politics, liberty, and prosperity over an idea they have managed to make appear to not be a theory but a foregone fact, and anyone who disagrees with them is just an ignoramous. I am not speaking of you, but the media's heavy support regarding those who have pushed this agenda. I also cannot stand hypocrites and to see Gore tout this agenda while living in a 25,0000 plus square foot home (that's just one of his homes) that uses more electricity than 21 families combined, or flying in a private jet the spews out all these dasterdly gasses all because that is his choice. He helps create a corporation that allows people to offset their carbon footprint, and he buys credits in it that actually profit him.

The "Hockey stick" graph he uses in his movie has been proven to be wrong, and yet it is still there helping prop up his agenda. The fact is, the earth does have limited resources. Scientists who are on the "global warmeing bandwagon" get lots of press while those who do not who are just as prominent or even more prominent have been ignored for the most part. How can our present have influenced the past of thousands of years ago? The earth's climate has been impacted most heavely by natural occurances such as volcanoes erupting and meteors hitting it. Yes, small changes can build up and drastically effect the whole eco-system, but I do not think man is the reason for global warming.

At one time, industry polluted the land and water without care, but those times in America have changed. We have by far the cleanest manufacturing and disposal system compared to most other countries in the world. My issues with regard to "global warming" mainly focus on the economic impact on the little guy just trying to survive. In New York there is a tax that is over $1,200.00 for the average household that goes towards a fund for programs dealing with global warming and the environment. $1,200.00 isn't much to someone making over $75,000.00 a year, but for a family of 4 making less than $30,000.00 a year, it's a lot of money.

There is an old tactic that is often employed by those in power that when they want to change the publics views and reach a goal desired, they create a crisis, and then the people clamore for a solution from government. Hitler did this with the Rhiechstag fire, and the politicians are doing it here in America with the war on poverty, the war on drugs, global warming, terrorism etc.. The end goal is to strip the rights and liberties of it's citizens in the name of security and fear of an unproven issue like global warming. I'm combining issues here, but my point is, when the media pushes an agenda so hard and ignores hard scientific proof that says otherwise, there is an agenda being played. It's about money and power for them, and that's it. I do believe some scientists are sincere in their views, but when they completely ignore those who give direct evidence contradicting their position, one has to ask themselves are they being militent to the point that this is a religion to them or are they truly being objective scientists trying to get to the truth?

I have studied on this issue quite a bit, and here is some information directly refuting the global warming agenda:


(for arwidea as well)

Himalayan Glaciers Are Growing ... and Confounding Global Warming Alarmists

Written By: James M. Taylor
Published In: Environment News
Publication Date: November 1, 2006
Publisher: The Heartland Institute

Glaciers are growing in the Himalayan Mountains, confounding global warming alarmists who have recently claimed the glaciers were shrinking and that global warming was to blame.

A new study of the Karakoram, Hindu Kush, and Western Himalaya mountain ranges by researchers at England's Newcastle University shows consistent recent growth among the region's glaciers.

Researchers found cooler summers are failing to melt winter snows, which are themselves becoming more frequent, resulting in advancing ice sheets.

The study was published in the September 2006 issue of the American Meteorological Society's Journal of Climate.


Warming Scares Debunked

The study puts another nail in the coffin of recent claims by global warming alarmists that global warming is causing dramatic shrinkage of Himalayan glaciers. A March 14, 2005 report from the activist group World Wildlife Fund (WWF) claimed, "Himalayan glaciers are among the fastest retreating glaciers globally due to effects of global warming."

The WWF said its report "reveals the rate of retreat of Himalayan glaciers accelerating as global warming increases."

Importantly, noted WWF, the reported glacier retreat "will eventually result in water shortages for hundreds of millions of people who rely on glacier-dependent rivers in China, India, and Nepal."

CNN, Reuters, ABC News, and National Geographic, among others, unquestioningly and uncritically reported the WWF assertions, despite WWF's clear status as an advocacy group.

The uncritical coverage surprised many analysts, because objective evidence indicated Himalayan glaciers were not melting at all. A March 13, 2005 article in Insurance Digest released one day before the WWF report reported Himalayan glaciers had fully recovered from prior retreats.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=20073

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
30 August 2005

Glaciers in New Zealand’s Southern Alps gained ice mass again in the past year. Fifty glaciers are monitored annually by the National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research (NIWA).

NIWA’s most recent survey of the glaciers was undertaken in March this year. Dr Jim Salinger of NIWA said today that analysis of the aerial photographs shows the glaciers had gained much more ice than they had lost during the past glacier year (March 2004 – February 2005).

http://www.niwa.cri.nz/news/mr/2005/2005-08-30-1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Glaciers Growing in France, Switzerland, and Washington: Will Media Care?
By Noel Sheppard | June 28, 2007

One of the pet peeves of anthropogenic global warming skeptics is how the media and climate change alarmists like soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore only address events supporting that which they conflate and abuse data to prove.

A perfect example is the discussion concerning receding glaciers, as these folks will either ignore when such recession began, or the other possible environmental issues that many scientists believe to be responsible.

Crater Glacier is like no other glacier in the world. It’s the only glacier with lava extruding through it and forming a dome. And while most glaciers are receding, Crater Glacier is advancing three feet per day and forming a collar around the growing dome.

Hmmm. Scientists can be surprised by nature? Aren’t climate models perfect in predicting future events?

Appears not, for glaciers are also expanding on Mont Blanc in France and Switzerland as reported by World Climate Report (h/t Benny Peiser, emphasis added throughout):

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers “Mountain glaciers and snow cover have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise.” Someone in Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled “Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th century climate change.” To say the least, we at World Climate Report were interested in what the authors had to say.

The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l’Univers de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European agencies.


read entire article at http://newsbusters.org/node/13798

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alaskan Glacier Growing Rapidly - “Icy Bay glaciers get up and go”

June 27, 2007
Wednesday


Until this spring, pilot Paul Claus would land a Supercub on a gravel bar in Icy Bay to give people an up-close look at a calving glacier. This year he can't land there because a glacier has rumbled over the gravel bar. The main glaciers in Icy Bay crept forward up to one-third of a mile sometime between August 2006 and June 2007.

"At least three glaciers in the same bay have advanced in one year," said Chris Larsen, a scientist at the Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, studying the ever-changing landscape of the area. "To have them advance right now is kind of weird."

http://www.sitnews.us/0607news/062707/062707_ak_science.html

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Pseudo Science veses truth


Scientific “Consensus” of Man-made Global Warming is a Myth
John Herron,

One of the most often cited pieces of evidence that man is causing global warming is a study by Naomi Oreskes that showed 75% of the examined scientific abstracts either explicitly or implicitly backed a view that man was contributing to global warming. This “consensus view” has been repeated ad nauseam, ad infinitum and is behind Al Gore's “the case is closed” statements.

Since many of the studies found in Naomi Oreskes' survey are now nearly 15 years old a new survey was done using the same techniques. By examining peer-reviewed papers published on the ISI Web of Science database medical researcher Dr. Klaus-Martin Schulte repeated Oreskes' study. The new study found 528 papers that matched the search results for the period 2004 through February 2007. Of those only 7% gave an explicit endorsement of the “consensus view”. Extending the scope to those that gave either an explicit or implicit endorsement the study found 45% in support of the “consensus view”. Even more striking is that a majority (54%) now either reject the “consensus view” outright or are now neutral regarding anthropogenic climate change. You can read more regarding this new study at DailyTech.com.

Also refuting the “consensus view”, and almost never mentioned in the popular news media, was a petition signed by over 17,000 scientists, two-thirds with advanced degrees, against the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was sponsored by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine. Here is part of what these scientists signed their names to:

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.

This was not an anonymous survey, these scientists put their reputations on the line and put their name beside their opinion. You can read more about this at the Global Warming Petition. One needs to keep in mind the following regarding this petition:
over 2/3rds of the signatories had advanced degrees,

2,660 were physicists, geophysicists, climatologists, meteorologists, oceanographers, and environmental scientists

5,017 were scientists whose fields of specialization in chemistry, biochemistry, biology, and other life sciences

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php?extend.26

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Desperately Seeking Mission: Why the State Department's Gone Green

by Peter Van Doren

Peter VanDoren is assistant director of environmental studies at the Cato Institute.

When a business isn't making money, it usually tries to market new products and attract new investors. When a bureaucracy's reason for existence is threatened, it typically generates new missions. One difference between businesses and bureaucracies, though, is that businesses have to satisfy customers and investors. Because bureaucracies are under no such constraint, they require more oversight.

The most recent evidence for this is Environmental Diplomacy, the State Department's first annual report on the environment and foreign policy. According to the report, the end of the Cold War has reduced the demand for the agency's traditional tasks and given it time to ponder other threats to U.S. vital interests. And what do you know? The world is filled with environmental crises that the State Department must solve.

What are the environmental problems that warrant the attention of the State Department? According to the report, they fall into five areas: climate change, toxic chemicals, species extinction, deforestation and marine degradation. In each area, terrifying scenarios abound that necessitate reliance on the State Department to save the day. For example, "Forests four times larger than Switzerland are lost every year. 70% of the world's marine fish stocks are fully to over-exploited. The people of the world annually release 23 billion tons of CO2 into the air . . . The range of impacts [from CO2 release] is likely to include: threats to human health including increases in heat-related deaths and illnesses, and in the incidence of infectious diseases. . . . There is no way to estimate the potential benefits that may come from millions of species yet to be studied, or yet to be discovered. And there is no way to estimate the health, economic, and spiritual costs to our children who could inherit a world robbed of a drug to cure AIDS, stripped of a strain of disease-free wheat, or bereft of the wonder of such diverse creatures as tigers and sea turtles."

Let's avoid speculating on the desperation that led the State Department to produce a post-Cold War mission that required the invocation of children, AIDS, wheat, sea turtles and tigers all in the same sentence. Instead, consider the paucity of evidence for the existence of those problems. Take, for instance, the panic over global warming. Observed warming since the late 19th century is only .5 degrees centigrade rather than the 1990 prediction of the United Nations’ climate change panel of 1.3 to 2.3 degrees centigrade, according to Patrick Michaels, professor of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia. Greenhouse physics predicts that the driest air masses -- those in the polar regions during the winter night -- should respond first and most strongly to CO2 emissions. In fact satellite data confirm that over the last 18 years the globe has cooled in general, but the coldest winter regions in Siberia and Canada have warmed. Are warmer winters in the Arctic Circle a problem?

read the rest at: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6106

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President Clinton and others cite a letter signed by 2600 scientists that global warming will have catastrophic effects on humanity. Thanks to Citizens for a Sound Economy, we know now that fewer than 10 percent of these "scientists" know anything about climate. Among the signers: a plastic surgeon, two landscape architects, a hotel administrator, a gynecologist, seven sociologists, a linguist, and a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine. Global Warming Treaty is All Pain, No Gain --- Malcom Wallop
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In 1989 as the Cold War and the threat of nuclear war were winding down, the Union of Concerned Scientists began to circulate a petition urging recognition of global warming as potentially the great danger to mankind. The petition was eventually signed by 700 scientists. Only three or four of the signers, however, had any involvement in climatology. Richard S. Lindzen, MIT

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The Heartland Institute

Orbiting satellites provide the most accurate global temperature readings -- accurate to 0.1 degree C. Interestingly, in the 18 years that satellites have been recording temperature they have actually showed a slight decrease in average global temperatures.

Ground-based thermometers that were originally in rural areas have been reading increasingly hotter temperatures with time due to urban encroachment. The asphalt and concrete structures replacing green leafy plants makes for hotter local ground temperatures. This phenomenon is known as the "urban heat-island effect" and has been well-documented by climatologist Dr. Patrick Michaels, professor of environmental sciences, University of Virginia.

In a November 1997 press release Vice President Al Gore proclaimed that 1997 was the hottest year on record. Ground-based temperature readings were the basis for this announcement. Had the data from orbiting satellites been cited the report would have been much different: no net increase in global temperatures in 1997.


I can continue to provide more and more data of experts and those who report on what the experts say, but I think I've made my points.

I encourage you to take the Global warming test the Heartland Institute has and see what the facts really are.

http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/GWQuiz/Testindex.html

I'll put this link on the general board as well for all to benefit from it's information.

We are in between ice ages, and the global temperature increases fluctuate during this phase. The scientific proof of that is overwhelming and those who are trying to push the "global warming" agenda are just out to fleece people of property rights, liberty, and money.

Phoenix
_________________
"A little work won't hurt you bad, but just in case I'm wrong, you'll be smiling when they pronounce you dead." Amanda Marshall 'This could take all night

Post Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:29 pm 
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