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General Forum Index -> Parenting

lesbian family - oxymoron?
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SASSY SOUL



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 52


Thanks for the hugs. It is important not to sit back and allow people to make statements without responding - which you don't agree with, provided you are not offensive in response. If people from the past sat back and expressed their meek side , being a gay man would still be illegal in the Uk and we wouldn't have what we have now.

I would however like to know from the original poster why they feel that a family constitutes a mum and dad?

If one is not willing to explain their statement one shouldn't create such a post. I would much prefer than making posts in the wilderness - without response.

Post Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:25 pm 
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ashamed



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 118
Location: Russia


you know, i'd prefer not to answer you at all, you sound too agressive.

the only thing why i expressed this thought was the programm on the TV, where psychologists discussed it. and i just wondered. ok??? is everything clear???

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:04 am 
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realwoman



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 1040
Location: under our tree in Africa


quote:
Originally posted by ashamed:
The norm is something that is accepted by the majority, isn't it? Then there are some points according to which we can say that this is the family and this is not...


Hi (((((((((ashamed)))))))))

Firstly, I think you may have misinterpreted SASSY's comment - I dont think she is aggressive, maybe just passionate, because your opinion (that a child should be raised by a 'traditional' family, and that if there is not a mom and dad in the family, it is not a family) kinda attacks her family, which is SASSY and her boy. I hope you can understand that, and answer some of the points she, and some of the other ladies who responded to you, asks.

Secondly, with regard to the question you asks in the quote above, maybe consider the following: If the norm is that which is accepted by the majority, and the majority does not accept people of a different colour, religion, or sexual orientation, does that make ppl with a different colour, religion or sexual orientation 'abnormal'? I dont think so, and I am sure you dont agree with that either...

What society thinks (the 'norm', as you called it) is influenced by many things, least of all common sense and good values... Many years ago, the 'norm' was the belief that the earth is flat, and people who did not believe that were burned at the stake... and then, they realised, well, its OK to live in a round world, we are not going to fall off or something, and it wont be the end of the world... and so gradually, the norm changes, incrementally, sometimes very slowly.

The same prejudice of society that caused the attacks on the girls in Moscow is ingrained in the believe that a family should be 'traditional'. Because society wants ppl to keep believing that gays are 'bad' and 'promiscuous', they are trying to keep ppl from seeing that two women, or two men, with or without kids, or a single mum and a kid can be a 'family' too, for the simple reason that their argument will then be null and void... This is the same argument ( 'being gay undermines family values' ) used in most countries when gay marriage is discussed, for the same reason - allowing gay people to marry acknowledges that there can be a family union between people of the same sex..

The only way that that we can change the minds of people, and make them less prejudice against gays, and even accepting of gay families, is by setting examples... by raising our children with love, either in a loving relationship with our partner, or by ourselves, if we are single. The true test is what kind of person that child will be when he or she grows up... will he or she be an evil dictator, or a murderer, or will she or he be a well balanced individual who has a value system transferred to him from the one or two people who raised her or him with love, love between themselves, irrespective their gender, and love for her or him?

Would love to hear if that made it more clear?

Hugs,

~real
_________________
.
.

light is to darkness as love is to fear...

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:10 am 
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smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


like the bumper sticker says:

LOVE makes a family.

Arrow

Cookie

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:57 pm 
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poeticrendezvous



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 278
Location: IL


I think the original question is based on moral complexity or conviction. I think it is fundamentally wrong to say that both sexes cannot provide some benefit to a child, after all we have lived with centuries of traditional families and they will always exist naturally. However, basing the outcome of the health and well being of a child by parental gender factors alone is misleading because divorce, abuse, addiction, financial issues, neglect, education, death etc are factors that affect a child's development regardless of the gender role. Abstaining from those factors, I think there may be differences when a homosexual couple raises a child as opposed to a heterosexual couple. There are legal, cultural, spiritual aspects that differ between societies that affect homosexual parents differently than straight parents. Not only that, a girl needs a good female role model as a son needs a male role model and of the opposite sex. However, even parents may not be good role models. Many gay/lesbian families have made provisions to ensure these role models are in place for their children. But even single mothers or fathers contend with these issues.

Morally, to each it's own. You have to go with your own conviction because no one else lives inside your head or heart, and we can blame no one else for our choices. For every issue, there will be professionals who will disagree with each other even on the basics.

A lesbian/gay couple (depending on the couple) can do a good job raising a healthy, well adjusted child just like a straight couple (depending on the couple) can do the same. But when stuck to the gender issue alone, it holds no merit whatsoever and when studies focus on gender alone, they are often
criticized because there are too many variables that simply cannot be isolated.

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:56 pm 
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SASSY SOUL



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 52


Firstly ashamed, apologies if you feel that I have appeared aggressive, I did not intend to but can sort of see how you have come to that conclusion.

To be honest, I was utterly offended at such as statement because, in essence you were stating that my childhood and that of my son - within a single parent family, was not really a family.

I do hope you can see that this is truly a bold statement in 2008.

Thanks for the last few posts as I think they are really good points. Before I go any further it is important to point out that if such a post was put on a 'mainstream' forum you would have got an awful lot worse than what I have said. - really.

I feel it's important to be able to express what you feel or think but equally, one should be prepared to support or explain that stance on a public forum or in person - hence why I asked - albeit it may have seemed a little aggressive or in your face, sorry.

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:43 pm 
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