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Labeling Sexuality: What do you think?

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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Labeling Sexuality: What do you think?

It is a common thing in our gay culture to label our sexual and social behavior :

Femme, butch, goldstar, lipstick, stone butch etc etc... And the same applies for gay men: Bears, twinks, tops etc...

Yet this is something we don't see in the heterosexual world. Of course there are kindof labels : S&M, dominant, submissive, swinger etc... but these are not the property of straight folks, they can apply to us to.

I would like to know what are your views on this subject. Should we drop our labels? Do we restrict ourselves by subscribing to a certain label instead of another? Or on the other hand : Is it a convenient way to talk about ourselves, a good summary to roughly say who we are without having to explain it in details. And I would like to know why this is seen almost exclusively in the gay world.

What do you think?

Post Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:27 pm 
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twilight



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 1035
Location: First Star on the Right Straight on til Morning


My problems with lables is that I do not fit any of them. I am too butch to be femme and too femme to be butch. Some call me a tweener. I don't know. I call my self a woman.
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Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:53 am 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


Interesting question Alice...

Here's my take on your question...

Because hetrosexual is the norm, that is the standard society judges by. There is only one box because of that, and you either fit or you don't.

If you look at other subcultures that have nothing to do with sexuality, you will find self-referring and group differentiating slang...amongst surfers, inner city kids, the military, prisoners even. Subcultures make up slang as a kind of short-hand, or as a way to keep others out or to differentiate within and form some sort of hierarchy.

I'm of the camp that would like to see tolerance. Label yourself if you want to label. Drop them if you don't care for labels. But I prefer labels that people choose for themselves rather than labels that a dominant group might make for a non-dominant group, e.g., racial epithets or derogatory terms for gays and lesbians.

Like twilight I'm a "tweener" so I prefer the label dyke. Very Happy

~Hawn
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Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:08 am 
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Blue_bandana



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 49


I think Hawaiian nailed it on the head. For the gay community, it's more prominent because we are outside the "norm." I think labels are a way to find empowerment, self understanding, group understanding, and control of our differences. They become damaging when we "become" the label, rather than just being ourselves. Also agree that it is important that we choose the label for ourselves, rather than have someone else try and do it for us.

Like Hawaiian and Twilight, I could fall into the "tweener" category, but I personally can't stand the term and find it offensive if directed at me. I ID as queer tomboi. It encompasses my sexuality and gender in a general sense. Doesn't limit me to anything and I like that. I think it helps others to "get an idea" of who I am as well, which helps in relating to one another.

Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:04 am 
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nobodysangel



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 429
Location: TN
good question

Growing up in a small southern town labels were used on people of all walks of life and social classes...''those people'' were ''trash'' , those people were this or that...I hated that and never quite understood how anyone could judge someone else just because the family did or did not have money..I grew up in a family that was well off..hell I won't lie,I was a spoiled rotten little rich girl...I hated labels..black people,, oh no couldn't associate..all kinds of deroogatory labels....I say we are all just people...regardless of your color or your sexual orietation..the above reply was indeed true...that being said I'm a girly girl....I love all things about being a woman..my girlfriend loves the fact that I am so girly...she is not girly and damn I just love that about her...we are all just peoples..in need of love and understanding...just wish the world could have more compassion for those that they view as ''different''.....
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Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:35 pm 
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Rosebud



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 164


hawaiian did a great job of explaining it.

like the others, I really dont' fit a category.

not lavish enough to really be a true-lipstick, way to femme to be butch.

and yes to me tweener just sounds derogatory.

I consider myself a woman......but in the lesbian circles....I do consider myself as a lipstick......with an attitude.

I just tend to stick to the general labels when referring to a persons personality, femme, butch, and dyke.


Exclamation

Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:52 pm 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Thanks for replying, you brought interesting points.

I was discussing this issue with my roommate and she pointed out that it was not completely true that these kind of sexual identity labels applied only to gay people, straight men that looks like stereotypical gay men are now referred to as metrosexuals or ubersexuals.

Now, why do we see this "new behavior" emerging from the group that forms the majority of people? Is it only because they want to differentiate themselves from the gay community or are these terms used in a politically correct way to say : "You look like a queer buddy!!!" ?

In other words : Is there an homophobic background in these labels or are they only natural outcomes of a developing sub-culture?

Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:08 pm 
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Hawaiian



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 816
Location: Transplanted to Africa


I had originally thought that metrosexual was a term invented on "Sex and the City" so I did some research to avoid embarrassing myself.

Apparently, the term was coined by Mark Simpson in an article he wrote for Salon.com about soccer star, David Beckham. His definition was printed in that same article (available here http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2002/07/22/metrosexual/index.html )

"The typical metrosexual is a young man with money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis – because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference."

So I think this is a case of the dominant class labeling those that do not fit in, after all most men are characterized as slobs with questionable grooming habits. Metrosexual doesn't have anything to do with someone's sexuality, just their narcissism.

As for ubersexual, I suspect much the same. I have never heard a man refer to himself with either of those terms...even the sensitive, well-dressed ones I know.

~Hawn

Note: The article posted may be offensive to some...and yes, the term does have homophobic undertones as demonstrated by this quote:

"Outing someone is not a thing to be contemplated lightly, but I feel it is my duty to let the world know that David Beckham, role model to hundreds of millions of impressionable boys around the world, heartthrob for equal numbers of young girls, is not heterosexual after all. No, ladies and gents, the captain of the England football squad is actually a screaming, shrieking, flaming, freaking metrosexual. (He'll thank me for doing this one day, if only because he didn't have to tell his mother himself.)"
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Post Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:57 pm 
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Khaleesi
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Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 551
Location: FL


Personally, I don't mind labelling myself. I also don't have a problem with someone that doesn't like labels as long as they respect my right to label myself if I choose to do so. There can be a fine line between a label and a slur though. While I might have no problem referring to myself as a dyke if a homophobic person yells "dyke" at me I might say "And damn proud of it" but I would know they didn't mean it as a compliment ... lol. So where do you draw the line? I guess the line is drawn at the intent behind the word.

Khaleesi
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Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:26 am 
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Alice In Quantum Land



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 77


Very well said! Very Happy

Post Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:17 am 
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MdmPrez



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 803
Location: US of A
Alice

Interesting topic, Alice. I've come back to this several times, never having time to put my thoughts down. However....

I am a woman and that is the sum total of who I am and how I want to be labeled, if a label must be attached to me.

And, while I happen to prefer women, I am not into labels relating to my sexual preference, nor anyone else's for that matter. I am not in the mainstream of lesbian culture. I have 2 very close female friends, who are a couple. We don't refer to each other using labels, nor to others.

I don't know if anyone really knows the genus of the 'label game'. but suffice it to say it crosses all lines and strata of humankind. To me, it can be mindless and degrading or just the opposite depending on the label and the category the label is attempting to identify.

As to the comment on metrosexual and ubersexual, "most men are characterized as slobs with questionable grooming habits", I find that offensive to men. Most men that I know and associate with are well groomed. I don't consider them narcissistic. Nor, do I consider a woman who is well groomed narcissistic. It is merely a style or ones taste.

Cat

Post Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:02 am 
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